Yay! for being able to post. I seem to be able to do long entries and comments now, after I cleared my cache and cookies and reset my IP address.
if Hermione had feelings for Ron and knew that he had feelings for her, why didn't she make a move, and I always got answers like "she's an old-fashioned girl" and "it's the guy job to make the moves".
As mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere, though she seemed to realize she fancied him she acted as if she was annoyed she did and wanted him to be more mature and grown up and such. I think it fits, if she's comparing Ron to Viktor, Ron in the superficial comes up lacking in some ways during that time period so I can see Hermione being quite annoyed that she feels that way about Ron instead of Viktor, the much more logical-to her-choice.
And she finally does make move, prompted, of course, by Lavender's obvious interest and Ron's seeming receptiveness to it so she is capable of doing so. Though I'm pretty sure if Lavender hadn't come along she'd not have made a move and would have continued treating Ron like she had in OOTP and the first part HBP.
As for Hermione not returning Ron's crush, I felt, from GoF on, that she did, if only because she usually got her knickers in a knot whenever another girl paid attention to him or vice versa.
I agree with you. I was just making the point that Ron didn't have much to go on and the little he had was definitely not a clear ask-the-girl-out message. He didn't necessarily see or understand the times you mentioned where Hermione's jealousy was evident. I think Hermione's response to the perfume Christmas present of OOTP is indicative. She gushes about Harry's present, a book, but merely says something like "The perfume is unusual, Ron" with little apparent enthusiasm. Now I imagine unusual was a polite way of saying terrible, but she dismisses the thought behind the perfume as well, which suggests Ron realizes she is a girl. Taken as a whole, Hermione did nothing that would suggest to Ron he ought to make a move that could potentially damage their friendship.
I figured it had to be jealousy because the alternative, that her opinion of Ron is so low that the idea of him getting any kind of female attention literally drives her to anger, is just too nasty. IMO, she would have to really hate him, platonically or otherwise, to feel that way.
Yeah, that would say absolutely nothing good about Hermione's character. I've even come across some H/Hr shippers that seem to think Hermione's behavior in HBP was driven by frustration at his immaturity.
The idea that after HBP she would turn out to have been pining for Harry or Draco or someone else the entire time would render her character unforgivable and unredeemable to me.
I feel the same. I just unlocked this post from a ship debate thread in which I went through HBP finding all the examples that, taken as a whole, would need a lot of explaining if the series turned out to be H/Hr. If Hermione has been pining away her treatment of Ron is completely horrible and says absolutely nothing good about her character. There is a certain segment of H/Hr shippers that still feel the series will end in H/Hr and that all the R/Hr stuff is a red herring. I don't understand how they would even want Hermione to end up with Harry if she's been that awful to someone she doesn't fancy but supposedly likes as a close friend. Unforgivable and unredeemable are apt words.
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if Hermione had feelings for Ron and knew that he had feelings for her, why didn't she make a move, and I always got answers like "she's an old-fashioned girl" and "it's the guy job to make the moves".
As mentioned earlier in the thread somewhere, though she seemed to realize she fancied him she acted as if she was annoyed she did and wanted him to be more mature and grown up and such. I think it fits, if she's comparing Ron to Viktor, Ron in the superficial comes up lacking in some ways during that time period so I can see Hermione being quite annoyed that she feels that way about Ron instead of Viktor, the much more logical-to her-choice.
And she finally does make move, prompted, of course, by Lavender's obvious interest and Ron's seeming receptiveness to it so she is capable of doing so. Though I'm pretty sure if Lavender hadn't come along she'd not have made a move and would have continued treating Ron like she had in OOTP and the first part HBP.
As for Hermione not returning Ron's crush, I felt, from GoF on, that she did, if only because she usually got her knickers in a knot whenever another girl paid attention to him or vice versa.
I agree with you. I was just making the point that Ron didn't have much to go on and the little he had was definitely not a clear ask-the-girl-out message. He didn't necessarily see or understand the times you mentioned where Hermione's jealousy was evident. I think Hermione's response to the perfume Christmas present of OOTP is indicative. She gushes about Harry's present, a book, but merely says something like "The perfume is unusual, Ron" with little apparent enthusiasm. Now I imagine unusual was a polite way of saying terrible, but she dismisses the thought behind the perfume as well, which suggests Ron realizes she is a girl. Taken as a whole, Hermione did nothing that would suggest to Ron he ought to make a move that could potentially damage their friendship.
I figured it had to be jealousy because the alternative, that her opinion of Ron is so low that the idea of him getting any kind of female attention literally drives her to anger, is just too nasty. IMO, she would have to really hate him, platonically or otherwise, to feel that way.
Yeah, that would say absolutely nothing good about Hermione's character. I've even come across some H/Hr shippers that seem to think Hermione's behavior in HBP was driven by frustration at his immaturity.
The idea that after HBP she would turn out to have been pining for Harry or Draco or someone else the entire time would render her character unforgivable and unredeemable to me.
I feel the same. I just unlocked this post from a ship debate thread in which I went through HBP finding all the examples that, taken as a whole, would need a lot of explaining if the series turned out to be H/Hr. If Hermione has been pining away her treatment of Ron is completely horrible and says absolutely nothing good about her character. There is a certain segment of H/Hr shippers that still feel the series will end in H/Hr and that all the R/Hr stuff is a red herring. I don't understand how they would even want Hermione to end up with Harry if she's been that awful to someone she doesn't fancy but supposedly likes as a close friend. Unforgivable and unredeemable are apt words.