sistermagpie (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sistermagpie) wrote2007-07-21 06:35 pm
sistermagpie) wrote2007-07-21 06:35 pm
Deathly Hallows
I feel weird writing this post, because I don't really feel like posting, yet it seems like I should, and then I think--what, do you imagine the public is waiting on pins and needles for your words? Get over yourself!:-D
Anyway, I didn't much like it. Perhaps my feelings will change, but stop here if you don’t want to read any negative stuff. I don't have any rants prepared or anything or want to harsh anybody's buzz. (But misery also loves company!) I was talking to someone who's asked me what I needed from the book, what I wanted to happen or what would have made me satisfied, and the truth is, I don't have an answer. I don't have a list of prescriptive criticism, or think things were done badly, or should have been done a different way.
Well, except one little thing, which couldn't be helped. When that white doe showed up I never doubted for a second it was Snape's Lily!Patronus (cause she's a lady!James!). We'd seen Arthur's and Kingsley's Patronuses talk, and oh, how I wanted that beautiful sparkly stag to come up to Harry and tell him to get this Quest going already in Snape's sarcastic voice.
I've never loved these books the way some do--which should not be taken as a criticism of people who do. I just mean that I know there are people who re-read the books over and over as comfort, and that's not something I ever did. I didn't ever want to re-read to spend time with these people or in this world. There are other books I do feel that way about, books that other people find meh. Basically, I felt like JKR was writing a story of good and evil, and life and death, that resonated with her and satisfied her, and felt like a triumph for her--just not me. So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions. More than once I felt like I was seeing more story outline/structure than story so that it seemed very contrived (a couple of times Harry himself seemed to admit it) and made it feel like nothing was building to anything.
What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them. I don't think I was ever so off as, say, a Harmonian banking on the Hippogriff o'love or anything like that, and some things that happened I did predict (Snape/Lily, obviously, and DDM!Snape). But in general I think I was reading Rowling a bit too much like a Tolkien fan, and maybe too much as a Jungian (not that I'm any expert on Jung, but I was reading from my own idea of his stuff). And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.
Contrary to what some may have thought at times-or not-I don't hate the good guys. Still don't hate them, just still would not want to spend time with them or re-read the books to spend time with them. The characters I liked the most I think less of now or am just kind of confused by, which is unfortunate. I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy--but that wasn't the first time in the book where that kind of thing happened.
Not sure what I predict fanfic-wise. I wonder if people might not start writing some interesting stuff. I did at one point think how I wanted to take a favorite character and put him in a different story.
Oh, also I've been dreading the epilogue for years, because I've always hated epilogues. Even when I was too young to know the name for them I hated them. Some books I guess can make a case for them being appropriate. HP is really not one of them that I can see. There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children. The one good thing I read about it was after it was leaked, before I read it, and I read a comment where someone said the epilogue read like any cliché H/G fic...or any cliché post-war H/D fic.;-)
Anyway, I didn't much like it. Perhaps my feelings will change, but stop here if you don’t want to read any negative stuff. I don't have any rants prepared or anything or want to harsh anybody's buzz. (But misery also loves company!) I was talking to someone who's asked me what I needed from the book, what I wanted to happen or what would have made me satisfied, and the truth is, I don't have an answer. I don't have a list of prescriptive criticism, or think things were done badly, or should have been done a different way.
Well, except one little thing, which couldn't be helped. When that white doe showed up I never doubted for a second it was Snape's Lily!Patronus (cause she's a lady!James!). We'd seen Arthur's and Kingsley's Patronuses talk, and oh, how I wanted that beautiful sparkly stag to come up to Harry and tell him to get this Quest going already in Snape's sarcastic voice.
I've never loved these books the way some do--which should not be taken as a criticism of people who do. I just mean that I know there are people who re-read the books over and over as comfort, and that's not something I ever did. I didn't ever want to re-read to spend time with these people or in this world. There are other books I do feel that way about, books that other people find meh. Basically, I felt like JKR was writing a story of good and evil, and life and death, that resonated with her and satisfied her, and felt like a triumph for her--just not me. So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions. More than once I felt like I was seeing more story outline/structure than story so that it seemed very contrived (a couple of times Harry himself seemed to admit it) and made it feel like nothing was building to anything.
What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them. I don't think I was ever so off as, say, a Harmonian banking on the Hippogriff o'love or anything like that, and some things that happened I did predict (Snape/Lily, obviously, and DDM!Snape). But in general I think I was reading Rowling a bit too much like a Tolkien fan, and maybe too much as a Jungian (not that I'm any expert on Jung, but I was reading from my own idea of his stuff). And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.
Contrary to what some may have thought at times-or not-I don't hate the good guys. Still don't hate them, just still would not want to spend time with them or re-read the books to spend time with them. The characters I liked the most I think less of now or am just kind of confused by, which is unfortunate. I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy--but that wasn't the first time in the book where that kind of thing happened.
Not sure what I predict fanfic-wise. I wonder if people might not start writing some interesting stuff. I did at one point think how I wanted to take a favorite character and put him in a different story.
Oh, also I've been dreading the epilogue for years, because I've always hated epilogues. Even when I was too young to know the name for them I hated them. Some books I guess can make a case for them being appropriate. HP is really not one of them that I can see. There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children. The one good thing I read about it was after it was leaked, before I read it, and I read a comment where someone said the epilogue read like any cliché H/G fic...or any cliché post-war H/D fic.;-)
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Hee! Well, I for one was glad to see you'd posted. :)
Anyway, I didn't much like it.
I was actually bored by it. I mean, I kept waiting to get to bits that I'd enjoy and it never happened. Even the final Snape chapter was just too little, too late, if that makes sense.
So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions.
Yes! I really had no emotional resonance with any of the characters. Less and less as the story dragged on, until it got to the point that I was actually rooting for folks to die. Just to kind of break up the monotony.
That part where Mrs. Weasley dropped the "B" word? (capslocked, no less) I could just feel JKR over my shoulder saying "See? See? Isn't she a bad-ass?" and it was just... eye-rolling, frankly. For me, anyway.
And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.
I'm honestly confused about that remark of JKR's. Exactly what about her faith would have given away the ending? Even the "resurrection" wasn't one. So that part baffles me. The two story-lines that I thought might go the "Christian" route were Draco's and Snape's. And neither did, really.
Or, maybe I was looking at the wrong perspective as you said. I guess I'm just confused as to what the "right" Christian perspective is.
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Look, I think most of the book can be defined by this exact frigging phrase, only about JKR or something. Too bad I've seen the Sopranos, and watched The Wire, and know what REAL badassery looks like :(
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Hee! Too bad the Trio hadn't watched something similar. Then maybe they'd have caught a clue or two about being stealthy. (Reason #239 it's better to be a muggle.)
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Jesus H. Christ indeed.
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*sighs*
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I was very very bored at points. As I said above, by the time Luna's father started in on the Deathly Hallows I didn't think I'd make it. The wedding was where I felt like it really started to drag. At one point where Harry thinks how they're so close to the Weasleys and Ginny is so close I thought Yeah, that's what it feels like--as if we've been wandering in your back yard for months.
Yes! I really had no emotional resonance with any of the characters. Less and less as the story dragged on, until it got to the point that I was actually rooting for folks to die. Just to kind of break up the monotony.
I remember after they escaped from the Manor I said, "Huh. Two people died. I should feel something. I don't." I just felt like if we had a list of characters we had just crossed two more off.
That part where Mrs. Weasley dropped the "B" word? (capslocked, no less) I could just feel JKR over my shoulder saying "See? See? Isn't she a bad-ass?" and it was just... eye-rolling, frankly. For me, anyway.
Oh god yes. That was exactly my feeling.
I'm honestly confused about that remark of JKR's. Exactly what about her faith would have given away the ending? Even the "resurrection" wasn't one. So that part baffles me. The two story-lines that I thought might go the "Christian" route were Draco's and Snape's. And neither did, really.
Well, I could be wrong (obviously I have been!) but I thought it was the whole idea that it's so amazing for an individual to actually agree to die for the rest of the world, and this personal choice is very very awesome. I think this might be the kind of focus you get in stuff like Passion of the Christ. (Having read about controversy in that movie, I found myself wondering if the Slytherins might be like the unworthies of that movie a bit.)
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Oh. Yeah, that makes sense. So it really is Harry = Jesus, which is just, blech. Especially with him throwing out Unforgivables left, right and center. (And an apparent natural at Imperius, picking it up so quickly and all. That's our hero, ladies and gentlemen!)
I think this might be the kind of focus you get in stuff like Passion of the Christ. (Having read about controversy in that movie, I found myself wondering if the Slytherins might be like the unworthies of that movie a bit.)
I missed that film myself, but yeah from the commentaries (particularly Christopher Hitchens, IIRC) I can totally see the Slytherins as the unworthies. Which, as per CH anyway, pretty much boiled down to the Jews. That the Slytherins were all pretty much bad struck me as incredibly... distasteful.
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I guess I shouldn't really be surprised by Harry casting Unforgivables, since Harry's personal character was never ever in doubt. Dark Magic just bounces right off him, really.
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Right, it's not as clear cut as an easily identified anti-Semitic thing, which is an understood "bad thing". But the Slytherins were painted as the "other" I think. And with all the Slytherins siding against Harry (except Slughorn and Snape, who both seemed like apologists of a sort) it was like DH was saying that yes, the "other" is bad and deserving of anything you throw at them.
I guess I shouldn't really be surprised by Harry casting Unforgivables, since Harry's personal character was never ever in doubt. Dark Magic just bounces right off him, really.
Right. It's not your actions it's just you. Which seems to fly in the face of some of Dumbledore's truisms, but then I'm not sure what Dumbledore really believed in the end.
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Maybe this is the religion thing. Calvinism holds that you either are or aren't redeemed, no matter what you do. Friends, who had some weird Baptist/Calvinist thing going, told me once that if a Saved (slated for salvation from before conception) person got too close to being really bad, or headed toward being reprobate, God would just take that person before they crossed the line. "It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." Show. Not shape, inform, mold, etc. We make these choices because of who we were born to be.
"In particular, predestination concerns God's decision to determine ahead of time what the destiny of groups and/or individuals will be and also includes all of Creation." Wikipedia, on Calvinism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination
Goodness, or badness, is predetermined, and revealed by our choices.
Who? What?
What does it mean if I just read that scene a couple of hours ago, and my reaction to your post was, "What? Somebody died in that scene? I can't remember that...."?
Dobby finally came to mind. But it took a while. And I still can't recall the other one.
Re: Who? What?
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I'm guessing it's when Harry got his Jesus on.
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But I think it's the deeper that I got tripped up on. I assumed (hoped?) JKR was going for a more thoughtful, (and I almost cringe using this word but it can't be helped) moral ending. So I was looking for a more indepth reference to her personal belief system or her understanding of Christianity. IOWs, like Magpie said, I was looking for a completely different story than the one she was writing.
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To bring in LOTR again, I can see so many reasons why that story resonated more with me. Frodo there is agreeing not just to probably die, but to fail, bringing in the humiliation factor that's often missing in the Passion (that is, it was there in the real Passion, but it's often overlooked in the telling). People were honest with Frodo about what he was doing. He wasn't celebrated for it or treated as a savior. In the end, was there really any reason that this whole quest had to be kept secret from everyone? Why on earth did Harry have to destroy the Horcruxes himself? One expects Voldemort to make a mistake like insisting that *he* be the one to kill Harry even though if he'd just let Crabbe do it he'd have won. But it's like Dumbledore wanted to make Harry as special as possible so his hero story would go the way he wanted.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head with this:
Frodo there is agreeing not just to probably die, but to fail...
There wasn't a sense at all that in sacrificing himself Harry might screw everything up. It was just, if I die we win, so I'll go die now. It was frankly, hard for me to read as all that sacrifical in the end. Especially as Harry was surrounded by all his beloved dead as he headed off to be killed.
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Once again, a Slytherin who's not so bad turned out to have been distinguished by a laser like focus affection on one specific person whom he desired. And killed. Um, yay.
There wasn't a sense at all that in sacrificing himself Harry might screw everything up. It was just, if I die we win, so I'll go die now. It was frankly, hard for me to read as all that sacrifical in the end. Especially as Harry was surrounded by all his beloved dead as he headed off to be killed.
Exactly! It reminded me of the Lily stuff again, where so many of us couldn't figure out why it was in any way unique that Lily would put herself in front of her baby--wouldn't any mother do that? Why is Harry wondering if Neville's would? And here again, Harry's choice actually seems like one that most people (erm, non-Slytherin people) would make.
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That's why I found Snape (life and) death strangely Old Testament-y. Yeah, he was "forgiven" in the sense that his memory was preserved: he wasn't a coward. Yet, and I'm certainly no expert, it seemed like Snape spent his entire life in penance to make up for past sins, as opposed to forgiveness brought about belief. I suppose if you look at it in a chronological way, it makes sense: before there was
PotterChrist, you had to face a wrathful God.Except everyone still hates the Slytherins in the end.no subject
The weird thing about Snape is I felt like she didn't even have him doing penance--at least not willingly. He was being punished and doing things to make up for what he had done, but I didn't feel like it really redeemed him at all beyond what he felt from the beginning: Shit, I killed Lily.
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I mean, the fact that Lily's sacrifice, while heroic, is painted as something unbelievably awe-inspiring (I thought she'd just hand over her baby to the psycho killer!) is almost creepy.
This is how terrifying death is, that a choice which would seem to be a no-brainer to most people (not that you can tell until you're in the moment, but I can't imagine anyone even caving for a stranger's child) is not even expected to be the norm but is supposed to be a one in a million style act of bravery.
And yet on the other side you almost have the worship of death with the Gryffindors who don't seem capable of playing tag unless there's the chance of a fatality; and this contempt for anyone who might be frightened not only of dying, but of injury or pain, where it's literally more honourable not just to be brave but to reject fear (while still remaining human, blah-de-blah - still haven't started the book, but I rolled my eyes hearing about Harry's "childish" line wondering if death hurts. My heartstrings, they were plucked! Not.) completely; where the ultimate evil is represented by a fear of death.
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