sistermagpie | Deathly Hallows

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Deathly Hallows

I feel weird writing this post, because I don't really feel like posting, yet it seems like I should, and then I think--what, do you imagine the public is waiting on pins and needles for your words? Get over yourself!:-D

Anyway, I didn't much like it. Perhaps my feelings will change, but stop here if you don’t want to read any negative stuff. I don't have any rants prepared or anything or want to harsh anybody's buzz. (But misery also loves company!) I was talking to someone who's asked me what I needed from the book, what I wanted to happen or what would have made me satisfied, and the truth is, I don't have an answer. I don't have a list of prescriptive criticism, or think things were done badly, or should have been done a different way.

Well, except one little thing, which couldn't be helped. When that white doe showed up I never doubted for a second it was Snape's Lily!Patronus (cause she's a lady!James!). We'd seen Arthur's and Kingsley's Patronuses talk, and oh, how I wanted that beautiful sparkly stag to come up to Harry and tell him to get this Quest going already in Snape's sarcastic voice.

I've never loved these books the way some do--which should not be taken as a criticism of people who do. I just mean that I know there are people who re-read the books over and over as comfort, and that's not something I ever did. I didn't ever want to re-read to spend time with these people or in this world. There are other books I do feel that way about, books that other people find meh. Basically, I felt like JKR was writing a story of good and evil, and life and death, that resonated with her and satisfied her, and felt like a triumph for her--just not me. So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions. More than once I felt like I was seeing more story outline/structure than story so that it seemed very contrived (a couple of times Harry himself seemed to admit it) and made it feel like nothing was building to anything.

What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them. I don't think I was ever so off as, say, a Harmonian banking on the Hippogriff o'love or anything like that, and some things that happened I did predict (Snape/Lily, obviously, and DDM!Snape). But in general I think I was reading Rowling a bit too much like a Tolkien fan, and maybe too much as a Jungian (not that I'm any expert on Jung, but I was reading from my own idea of his stuff). And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.

Contrary to what some may have thought at times-or not-I don't hate the good guys. Still don't hate them, just still would not want to spend time with them or re-read the books to spend time with them. The characters I liked the most I think less of now or am just kind of confused by, which is unfortunate. I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy--but that wasn't the first time in the book where that kind of thing happened.

Not sure what I predict fanfic-wise. I wonder if people might not start writing some interesting stuff. I did at one point think how I wanted to take a favorite character and put him in a different story.

Oh, also I've been dreading the epilogue for years, because I've always hated epilogues. Even when I was too young to know the name for them I hated them. Some books I guess can make a case for them being appropriate. HP is really not one of them that I can see. There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children. The one good thing I read about it was after it was leaked, before I read it, and I read a comment where someone said the epilogue read like any cliché H/G fic...or any cliché post-war H/D fic.;-)

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I think I feel the same way, or at least I'd describe it that way. I was never entirely invested in the books to the point of actual desire to read them and know what happens at any cost. I read the first few quite casually as I got them, asked what the heck was up with Quidditch, and waited for the next one to come out. With the last two, it's been a race to read them quickly so I can experience the books rather than the commentary and spoilers that inevitably follow quickly. I hate when people like something that much, because the more everyone else likes it, the less wholesome it seems to become. We were in the bookstore last night looking at all the merchandise that's sprung from the movies (I doubt anyone would have merchandised the series if it had remained exclusively in book form and JKR had refused to let anyone make a movie), and it just made me want to forget that Harry Potter had ever existed. People BUY this junk because they want to feel closer to the story... it's chess sets and fake wands! You can get that stuff, minus the Harry Potter logos all over it, for half the price.

My hype-bitterness aside, as it should be, I enjoyed the final entry in the series more than most of the others. Most of the trappings from the earlier books that I didn't like (*coughQuidditch*) were absent, there was much more excitement (even during the freakishly long soliloquy and explanation segments), and I thought the ending worked. Aside from the "hey, let's throw another dead body on the pile" syndrome, mainly felt when a certain character was carrying a certain other character's body and went back for another one, I felt everything from the earlier books came together pretty well. But I hate reading critically and just read to enjoy things, so I'm easy to please superficially. *shrug* I'm posting my own thoughts in two posts, one of which is already up.

I have to wonder if JKR's need for an epilogue was geared toward younger readers who needed some kind of Murder She Wrote exposition. I wonder if she also wanted to tie up her own little loose ends, but in the end the epilogue just made me laugh... badly.

Honestly, I was ready for Harry to die. It disappointed me to see that she sort of chickened out to those ends.

What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them

This is exactly where I am with it right now. I hope at some point I'll be able to enjoy the series for what it is, now that I *know* what it is, but the things that I really loved, that made it compelling for me, were things that I only *thought* she was writing. (Or alternatively I can find a way to privilege my own reading...I hate to just give it up when I did love it so much.)

Thank you for writing this post! I was begining to feel rather alone in some of my oppinions about DH and it's epilogue, but after reading this I'm glad others have thought some of the same things.

Yonks ago, when I first started hearing about the HP series epilogue, I was seriously apprehensive about such a final ending for the series. Now, after reading the book, some of my fears have come true. I agree... Albus Severus sounds weird on so many levels. Not to mention name confusion? I could hardley keep up with all the children running aorund the final chapter.

Mostley, I was dissapiointed with the lack of moral. JKR has always tlaked about deeper meanings and morals in her books and I thought that her epilogue would be a chance for her to give her last thoughts. Instead, it was a cliched fanfiction filled with many useless facts.

There were moments in the novel as a whole I enjoyed and will remember, but I must say, the epilogue left a bad taste in my mouth.

Again, thank you for your thoughts!

i was confused by the christian-ism she said she had and couldn't explain becuase of the book.... I mean, I am assuming Harry = christ figure, esp with the ressurection and all, but uhm, if he was, why'd he go and cast an unforgivable?

I was expecting to think the book was crap, like I thought the last ones were, but that hey, fanfic can fix that. So I went into it expecting very little. I am anxious about what will happen with fanfic (not just because I'm still in the middle of an epic snarry).

The way she handled the WWII issues though offended me (there more in my lj if you are interested). I don't think she was deliberately putting anyone down- but she didn't do her research and came off insensitive- like having Harry Potter fly his broom around a magical version of the WTC to save everyone, or give everyone there potions so when they jump, they won't feel a dang thing (which is a normal fantasy I think for the helpless observers, but there are respectful and tasteless ways to tell such a story. When I've seen a few people write this kind of mary-sued save the day for something like WWII or the WTC attacks, I've seen people respond that tit was tasteless, and I think that's exactly what JKR did- only its buries in a larger series with a ton of hype around. I was able to excuse her diminishing the suffering of witches burned at the stake early in the series when it was aimed at young readers, but not when we get to the 'adult' version of the story- retrospectively and in this book- her attitude to historical suffering just offends me.

There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children.

LOL! Honestly, that's the least glamourous bit of life. (Take it from me!)

i didn't know the christian thing, but i would guess that it's Jesus's Love = Loving One Another, where "loving one another" means having friends and family you're loyal to even when they piss you off.

not my idea of love.

i'm in the same boat where the things that really drew me into the books were the things that turned out to be significantly awry from what i thought they were - specifically snape's and lupin's (and, less so, harry's) characterizations - which again goes to the idea that "moral" value comes from interpersonal connections with people (snape/lily, lupin/tonks, dubledore/family, harry/friends) rather than a strictly personal sense of integrity and right vs wrong.

She undercut all the ways I thought I identified with the series. Still going off on this tangent... it reminds me of born-again right-wing conservatives who are capable of friendship and love and pity for the people they can personally connect with but who have no sense of the bigger picture - how their actions impact society at large. except that Rowling does overtly acknowledge some of the flaws in her society, but does nothing to indicate that any of the characters really understand *why* it's wrong to judge muggles/slytherins/magical creatures (other than - because that can create trouble for us later on?)

frustrating. >:{

Most of what I enjoyed In DH where things that would Support that which Interests me in the Fanfiction I like to read and the quantity of this did not seem enough. The rest of what I did not Like was similar to what I don't Like in the Fanfiction I do Not like to Read and there was too much of this.

I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy

Before I start my own little whine, I'll just say a HELL YEAH to that. I saw that and was just like, what. The Christ. *sighs*

Thankfully, I had sort of washed my hands of the canon going anywhere near where I wanted it to go for a while before now, so it was more of a fun read than I'd expected. And though I'm not a rereader of these books, I'll likely be snipping a few quotes for icons and maybe rereading the last battle (did you think that was great but a little all over the place, or was it just me...? Eh). But most deeefinitely not for comfort.

As for interrogating the text, I don't think I really bothered, to be honest. But I definitely read this book in a far different state of mind than I did the last, mostly because so much has changed about how I think about stuff. And so many things jumped out at me that just read wrong- the house elf thing (on one hand, I liked Kreacher turning nice on everyone, but on the other hand, good frigging grief did I just not like how his interaction with everyone played), and the everyone-gets-married, cooks, and gets pregnant thing.

I don't know. I know I won't be recommending it, and some of the things I've thought and said about JKR feel kind of mean or mean-spirited, but still. There's just more I expect from books nowadays, and not very much was in this book.

I think I've managed to avoid a lot of merchandise hype. There's been no getting away from hype in general--I think on my way to work for a while I've passed at least 12 OotP pictures--but I've never been to a release party of anything and I think I've tuned out a lot of merchandise. It always seemed kind of pointless to me, I mean that there was no reason to have stuff that said HP on it. (Though I do have a wand, it's just pretty.;-)

Honestly, it seems like younger readers would be even less interested in an epilogue than I was--but then, maybe that's because as I said I always hated them with a passion, even more so when I was a kid. I *hated* it when characters my age suddenly grew up and were adults at the end.

Yeah, I'm open to liking things. There was just more in this book that I wasn't really excited by, and I didn't cry at any of the deaths or anything. I admit I was actually happy when Dobby died. And pages later I'd remember he was dead and be happy again.

I did like Dumbledore's backstory on its own, though.

Thanks! I know she was writing about stuff that was probably very resonant for her, just not for me. I wonder if it's a bit like people who read Tolkien and think the way the ring is destroyed is ridiculous.

I bought the Order of the Phoenix game for the Wii, for various reasons. I wanted to see what a Harry Potter game was like, I liked the idea of using the Wii remote to cast spells, and it turned out to come with a free ticket to the movie. And aside from "Barry Trotter and the Unauthorized Parody", that's all the merchandise I've bought. Just media, no 3-D Hogwarts puzzles, action figures, candy, fake props, Quidditch board games...

I just read your post--that was really interesting. I didn't think of it that way. Mostly I remember feeling very much that everything had been made WWII because that was basically the situation she wanted them to be in. It was almost like a spell was cast over the world that way. It felt a bit odd after a year of the attitude we had in HBP, and it seemed a little contrived. I didn't feel like I really knew enough to say it couldn't happen that way, but it really just felt like part of the plotline for this particular book, like the politics follow the same kind of timetable as everything else.

Heh. It has its rewards I know! It just never felt like something that needed to be answered.

Hee. Efficiently said!

I caught myself last night still kind of wondering where that story was going to go, the one whose first half was in HBP! It wasn't even a complaint, it was just like I still can't put the two together in my mind.

It's funny that I happen to be reading another book that's kids fantasy at the moment, I was suddenly aware of how differently I relate to the characters in it, just because they're written a different way. The way JKR writes her characters is great for fanfic and I think are a big reason for such a big fandom-I'm not knocking them for what they are, because they have their own strengths. I just realized I was interacting with the characters differently and enjoying it.

thanks
I did pick up on the wwii stuff earlier as I think several other people did. i just expected it to be kept more general, and I wanted to see more emphasis on house-unity to over come evil (which could be taken easily at face value, or in a general sense of people coming together, or if you wanted to go the WWII parallel rout then they could be how all the countries had to work together etc). Of course Harry is meant to defeat Voldemort- no complaints with that as part of the expected plot, but dropping the ball on the house unity (among so many other things) and having harry save the day in that ministry scene turned it from something i could see read on different levels, to something that felt overly mary-sued, insensitive and offensive to my past.

what series and what is the difference with how the characters were written if I may ask?

I feel weird writing this post, because I don't really feel like posting, yet it seems like I should, and then I think--what, do you imagine the public is waiting on pins and needles for your words?

Hee! Well, I for one was glad to see you'd posted. :)

Anyway, I didn't much like it.

I was actually bored by it. I mean, I kept waiting to get to bits that I'd enjoy and it never happened. Even the final Snape chapter was just too little, too late, if that makes sense.

So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions.

Yes! I really had no emotional resonance with any of the characters. Less and less as the story dragged on, until it got to the point that I was actually rooting for folks to die. Just to kind of break up the monotony.

That part where Mrs. Weasley dropped the "B" word? (capslocked, no less) I could just feel JKR over my shoulder saying "See? See? Isn't she a bad-ass?" and it was just... eye-rolling, frankly. For me, anyway.

And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.

I'm honestly confused about that remark of JKR's. Exactly what about her faith would have given away the ending? Even the "resurrection" wasn't one. So that part baffles me. The two story-lines that I thought might go the "Christian" route were Draco's and Snape's. And neither did, really.

Or, maybe I was looking at the wrong perspective as you said. I guess I'm just confused as to what the "right" Christian perspective is.

It wasn't even a complaint, it was just like I still can't put the two together in my mind.

I know what you mean. It feels like she crammed everything into this book all in the name of keeping the big mysteries secret or whatnot, and it just all didn't hold together at all. I feel like she really just lost a handle on the entire thing somehow, and should have been advised to step back and look at things and take things out or something. Or just clarify. Or just come up with a better frigging way of tying everything together.

I mean, honestly, the advertisers knew what they were doing, advertising whether Snape would be good or evil - that was pretty much the only *interesting* Big Mystery left. After that, there was the Lily thing, which was thin, and the Hallows thing, which was even thinner. I wonder when the hell she got the idea for the Hallows, honestly, because she definitely didn't capitalise on the visible ones sooner. If not drawing some attention to Dumbles' wand, she could have made the Cloak seem, I dunno, more like some mysterious object rather than this wicked useful prop for sneaking out ~~and having sex beneath~~ with.

The way JKR writes her characters is great for fanfic
That's definitely it, I think. I love how accessible it all is, honestly- just kinda wish things had been a little more put together in the plotting department. ESPECIALLY after reading better-plotted stuff, I feel she could probably have done better. It's definitely not the kids' fantasy thing - Eoin Colfer does just fine for himself in that genre, and so does Garth Nix.

And I do interact differently with characters from other stories- for the most part, I let them just be, and if they aren't really taking me along with them, I usually just stop reading. And that can be bloody cool, especially if you're reading something good.

I understand what you mean. The house unity thing was a blow to me too. It made me a little uncomfortable the way a quarter of the population came across to me.

...

Yeah.

I even read it again, carefully, just to see if I'd feel differently once I'd had a chance to read it without needing to know the ending. I didn't.

It's kind of hard to describe, but I just happened to be reading this series by Diana Wynn Jones--I think it's the Dalemark Quartet. It's not that the characters are so uniquely written, it's just it's...I don't know if I can even explain it. I feel a bit closer to the characters, like they're all more fleshed out and individuals. It's just a different style.

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Deathly Hallows

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