sistermagpie (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sistermagpie) wrote2008-10-16 11:05 am
sistermagpie) wrote2008-10-16 11:05 am
Proud of Palins
So I watched the debate and thought many things throughout it that I've discussed elsewhere but there was one weird moment that I haven't seen brought up yet. I found myself thinking about it after the debate and this morning. It was when the candidates were asked how they felt about their running mate being president if something were to happen to him. Obviously that question was there to address the many things said about Palin.
Here's the transcript.
So he says, "I'm proud of her" and "And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family."
It's that particular use of "I'm proud of her/her and her family." It just sounds like how you talk about a child. I can understand using "proud" to talk about your running mate, but I'd expect it more as a "I'm proud to be running with her" way. It may sound like nit-picking but he said it twice the same way...it was just incredibly paternalistic-sounding. I didn't think it was an intended insult at Palin, of course. He's proud of her and her family--iow, her children. And one could maybe take it that he's saying that he's proud of all American families and this is one of them, but that still puts him in a position of responsibility *over* those families as president.
It was just a little troubling to me what that seemed to say about how he viewed her. I couldn't imagine Obama or Biden speaking that way about the other. I just...can you imagine Obama saying how proud he is of how Biden's done as a candidate? Even worse if Biden said it about Obama? Without something that put them on the same level, like "He makes me proud to be a Democrat" or some such? I'm probably not explaining it well, but that phrase and the way it was said just came across as completely but casually setting up a clear inequality between the two.
And that went along with "[Americans] know that she's a role model to women and other[s]..."
Again, that raised my hackles. You don't tell me that she's a role model to women--therefore me (in some ways she's the exact opposite). I know there's probably a very easy response to this, that he's not really saying that, he's just saying that some women, perhaps many women, look up to her as a role model. If you're a woman and running for vice president you're going to be described as a role model at some point. And I get that since Palin's main appeal is as a character--the feisty hockey straight-talking hockey mom who plays with the big boys and wins, she's a "breath of fresh air"--that's the kind of thing he's going to talk about in praising her.
But it just to me felt like it revealed the cynicism in the choice of her, like he has this vague notion of women liking Hilary Clinton because she was a woman so, you know, here's that role model that you wanted. That's part of her job as vice president. He's looking down on her with approval and pride; the man says I should look up at her for what I want to be. That's the hierarchy.
Then he rounds out the thing with the completely bizarre "Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too."
Um...so? Yeah, I know that it's not unheard of to say something about a candidate's wife with regards to his presidency. But not when you've got 90 seconds to sum up why he'd be a good president. And usually only when the wife in question is understood to be a professional of equal standing who's going to do some specific thing for the job. Otherwise she's just a gracious first lady--which can be a fine thing, but it's not really considered part of the job of president. It's hard to not get the impression that he just didn't have enough of substance to say about the woman in the short time he was given so had to start talking about other members of her family in a way that went beyond just showing how they reflect the way she would govern.
Given the history of women's rights bringing up a woman's husband in her job qualifications has a totally different weight. Men haven't historically had to fight to be taken seriously on their own. To bring up Todd Palin (heh--I always want to call him Todd Packer) in a way that implies that he's part of the deal because Sarah Palin is a family unit...it's hard for me not to see Todd as the de facto head of the family as the "tough" husband. I don't think McCain was throwing him in as a winking implication that it's really Todd who's going to be v.p. or anything, but I was sure reminded of times when that would be a given listening to this answer.
I feel like I still haven't explained this well, but that there are probably people who could zero in on exactly what I'm describing and explain it better!
ETA: THANK YOU JON STEWART: "You're proud of her? What is she, your daughter?"
Here's the transcript.
Well, Americans have gotten to know Sarah Palin (see photo). They know that she's a role model to women and other -- and reformers all over America. She's a reformer. She is -- she took on a governor who was a member of her own party when she ran for governor. When she was the head of their energy and natural resources board, she saw corruption, she resigned and said, "This can't go on."
She's given money back to the taxpayers. She's cut the size of government. She negotiated with the oil companies and faced them down, a $40 billion pipeline of natural gas that's going to relieve the energy needs of the United -- of what they call the lower 48.
She's a reformer through and through. And it's time we had that bresh of freth air (sic) -- breath of fresh air coming into our nation's capital and sweep out the old-boy network and the cronyism that's been so much a part of it that I've fought against for all these years.
She'll be my partner. She understands reform. And, by the way, she also understands special-needs families. She understands that autism is on the rise, that we've got to find out what's causing it, and we've got to reach out to these families, and help them, and give them the help they need as they raise these very special needs children.
She understands that better than almost any American that I know. I'm proud of her.
And she has ignited our party and people all over America that have never been involved in the political process. And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family.
Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too.
So he says, "I'm proud of her" and "And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family."
It's that particular use of "I'm proud of her/her and her family." It just sounds like how you talk about a child. I can understand using "proud" to talk about your running mate, but I'd expect it more as a "I'm proud to be running with her" way. It may sound like nit-picking but he said it twice the same way...it was just incredibly paternalistic-sounding. I didn't think it was an intended insult at Palin, of course. He's proud of her and her family--iow, her children. And one could maybe take it that he's saying that he's proud of all American families and this is one of them, but that still puts him in a position of responsibility *over* those families as president.
It was just a little troubling to me what that seemed to say about how he viewed her. I couldn't imagine Obama or Biden speaking that way about the other. I just...can you imagine Obama saying how proud he is of how Biden's done as a candidate? Even worse if Biden said it about Obama? Without something that put them on the same level, like "He makes me proud to be a Democrat" or some such? I'm probably not explaining it well, but that phrase and the way it was said just came across as completely but casually setting up a clear inequality between the two.
And that went along with "[Americans] know that she's a role model to women and other[s]..."
Again, that raised my hackles. You don't tell me that she's a role model to women--therefore me (in some ways she's the exact opposite). I know there's probably a very easy response to this, that he's not really saying that, he's just saying that some women, perhaps many women, look up to her as a role model. If you're a woman and running for vice president you're going to be described as a role model at some point. And I get that since Palin's main appeal is as a character--the feisty hockey straight-talking hockey mom who plays with the big boys and wins, she's a "breath of fresh air"--that's the kind of thing he's going to talk about in praising her.
But it just to me felt like it revealed the cynicism in the choice of her, like he has this vague notion of women liking Hilary Clinton because she was a woman so, you know, here's that role model that you wanted. That's part of her job as vice president. He's looking down on her with approval and pride; the man says I should look up at her for what I want to be. That's the hierarchy.
Then he rounds out the thing with the completely bizarre "Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too."
Um...so? Yeah, I know that it's not unheard of to say something about a candidate's wife with regards to his presidency. But not when you've got 90 seconds to sum up why he'd be a good president. And usually only when the wife in question is understood to be a professional of equal standing who's going to do some specific thing for the job. Otherwise she's just a gracious first lady--which can be a fine thing, but it's not really considered part of the job of president. It's hard to not get the impression that he just didn't have enough of substance to say about the woman in the short time he was given so had to start talking about other members of her family in a way that went beyond just showing how they reflect the way she would govern.
Given the history of women's rights bringing up a woman's husband in her job qualifications has a totally different weight. Men haven't historically had to fight to be taken seriously on their own. To bring up Todd Palin (heh--I always want to call him Todd Packer) in a way that implies that he's part of the deal because Sarah Palin is a family unit...it's hard for me not to see Todd as the de facto head of the family as the "tough" husband. I don't think McCain was throwing him in as a winking implication that it's really Todd who's going to be v.p. or anything, but I was sure reminded of times when that would be a given listening to this answer.
I feel like I still haven't explained this well, but that there are probably people who could zero in on exactly what I'm describing and explain it better!
ETA: THANK YOU JON STEWART: "You're proud of her? What is she, your daughter?"
no subject
I wouldn't call "a good guy" somebody who projects his own ideas onto people and couldn't care less about women's rights (=human rights).
no subject
Of course we could argue what constitutes a 'good' person-- ask 10 people and you'll get 10 opinions; I wouldn't casually say that if I wasn't talking to someone I thought would get would I mean (Sister M). So... um, 'good' is subjective and has different measurements. The reason I mentioned it at all is because nearly all my friends mention how they liked McCain and at one point respected him; I didn't know of him myself, so I can only go with what I've read here and there. To respond to your point about projecting/etc-- well, lots of people do that... in fact I'd say almost everyone does that to some degree. It's very rare when I meet someone who doesn't strike me that way at all; it's just that McCain is particularly obvious about it, especially in contrast to the more mild and rational Obama.
Also, as Sister M also agreed, I don't think he literally 'doesn't care' about women's health, it's that he doesn't think outside his box & doesn't realize the consequences of what he proposes in context. Note I said he 'wasn't dumb' rather than that he was actually 'quite intelligent'. :>
no subject