sistermagpie (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sistermagpie) wrote2004-09-05 09:54 pm
sistermagpie) wrote2004-09-05 09:54 pm
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Back in the superbad 70s
I watched a couple of movies over the past couple of days, including some 1970s favorites. It reminded me that sad as it is, I have a problem with Annie Hall.
I think I like Manhattan better, just thinking about it now. The first time I saw AH I just thought it was funny, because it is. I think I was about 14 or something. There were things I didn't really get in it. Not the jokes, but how things were. Watching it now it makes it really hard for me. It sounds really judgmental, but I just have problems having a lot of respect for Annie. She doesn't seem to have any job, and spends the whole movie seemingly going from man to man and sponging up opinions from them. I realize it's normal when you go out with someone to be exposed to things you weren't exposed to in the past and so try new things, but it seems all one way in the movie because Annie just so changes in terms of interests and beliefs. But mostly it's just the issue that she has no job.
Alvy pays for her therapy, which is something he wants, and sure if I was going to therapy for somebody else's whim you can be damned sure they'd be paying for it and not me. But then, I wouldn't agree to it. It's bizarre to me that anyone would allow a guy to buy them books to read and put them in therapy and tell them to take adult education classes. It's incredibly demeaning, imo. But then Annie gets all into it and says in the beginning she's going 5 times a week and is learning to stand up to him in it and I just don't know how somebody can just casually accept that kind of financing for that. She sings, but she's a terrible singer and it's more the sort of thing an amateur does for fun. She's not a professional singer trying to break in. I mean, I know people who put together cabaret acts and do them and it's totally different from what she does in the movie. So I find myself assuming that Paul Simon's character just sees her as somebody he could have as a girlfriend, period, and she's interested and winds up living with him. I wind up just feeling, well, kind of disgusted by this character!
I was mentioning this to my roommate and she said she'd read this essay about that new movie We Don't Live Here Anymore, which was written in the 70s but they're setting it now. In the essay it said one of the things that really stood out was that the women just have no lives beyond their husbands. It's just strange now to see a movie where you've got a single man who of course has a career we know about while the girl's history is entirely made up of her different boyfriends. It's nice, though, to think how it stands out today.
Then I saw The Way We Were, which I'd never seen. God, how could anyone stand Barbara Streisand's character for 5 minutes much less marry her? Yipes.
I am now watching The Anniversary Party. I've wanted to see it since that Jennifer Jason Leigh thing I was at. Alan Cummings is pretty convincing as a woman's husband, which surprises me. Phoebe Cates is cool. Never thought I'd say that when she was first on the cover of Seventeen. I don't know Phoebe Cates at all but I've had like tiny interractions with her on more than one occasion and she's kind of playing herself here, I think. Jane Adams is playing a whacked out woman, which is exactly the way I remember her from the thing. God, she was high as a kite and totally embarassing, just like she is here.
Nobody told me Gwyneth Paltrow was in the movie, and it was a nasty shock when somebody opened the door to let her in. She's one of the rare actors who for me is reason to avoid a movie. Had I but known, I'd probably be on a diffrent channel.
In other news, there was a bit of a mix-up at the groomers and the dog's bald. Well, she's got some hair on her head but her body is pink, save for a little fringe on the end of her tail. You can see her scar and her crooked tail and she looks like she's made out of pipe cleaners. The roommate does not find this amusing, as she feels the dog's neighborhood fans, who are legion, will blame her for this.
I think I like Manhattan better, just thinking about it now. The first time I saw AH I just thought it was funny, because it is. I think I was about 14 or something. There were things I didn't really get in it. Not the jokes, but how things were. Watching it now it makes it really hard for me. It sounds really judgmental, but I just have problems having a lot of respect for Annie. She doesn't seem to have any job, and spends the whole movie seemingly going from man to man and sponging up opinions from them. I realize it's normal when you go out with someone to be exposed to things you weren't exposed to in the past and so try new things, but it seems all one way in the movie because Annie just so changes in terms of interests and beliefs. But mostly it's just the issue that she has no job.
Alvy pays for her therapy, which is something he wants, and sure if I was going to therapy for somebody else's whim you can be damned sure they'd be paying for it and not me. But then, I wouldn't agree to it. It's bizarre to me that anyone would allow a guy to buy them books to read and put them in therapy and tell them to take adult education classes. It's incredibly demeaning, imo. But then Annie gets all into it and says in the beginning she's going 5 times a week and is learning to stand up to him in it and I just don't know how somebody can just casually accept that kind of financing for that. She sings, but she's a terrible singer and it's more the sort of thing an amateur does for fun. She's not a professional singer trying to break in. I mean, I know people who put together cabaret acts and do them and it's totally different from what she does in the movie. So I find myself assuming that Paul Simon's character just sees her as somebody he could have as a girlfriend, period, and she's interested and winds up living with him. I wind up just feeling, well, kind of disgusted by this character!
I was mentioning this to my roommate and she said she'd read this essay about that new movie We Don't Live Here Anymore, which was written in the 70s but they're setting it now. In the essay it said one of the things that really stood out was that the women just have no lives beyond their husbands. It's just strange now to see a movie where you've got a single man who of course has a career we know about while the girl's history is entirely made up of her different boyfriends. It's nice, though, to think how it stands out today.
Then I saw The Way We Were, which I'd never seen. God, how could anyone stand Barbara Streisand's character for 5 minutes much less marry her? Yipes.
I am now watching The Anniversary Party. I've wanted to see it since that Jennifer Jason Leigh thing I was at. Alan Cummings is pretty convincing as a woman's husband, which surprises me. Phoebe Cates is cool. Never thought I'd say that when she was first on the cover of Seventeen. I don't know Phoebe Cates at all but I've had like tiny interractions with her on more than one occasion and she's kind of playing herself here, I think. Jane Adams is playing a whacked out woman, which is exactly the way I remember her from the thing. God, she was high as a kite and totally embarassing, just like she is here.
Nobody told me Gwyneth Paltrow was in the movie, and it was a nasty shock when somebody opened the door to let her in. She's one of the rare actors who for me is reason to avoid a movie. Had I but known, I'd probably be on a diffrent channel.
In other news, there was a bit of a mix-up at the groomers and the dog's bald. Well, she's got some hair on her head but her body is pink, save for a little fringe on the end of her tail. You can see her scar and her crooked tail and she looks like she's made out of pipe cleaners. The roommate does not find this amusing, as she feels the dog's neighborhood fans, who are legion, will blame her for this.
no subject
I wonder if it's fair to say Annie doesn't have a career, defines herself through the men in her life. I suspect she's supposed to be much younger than Alvy, just really starting out and being a young person in a new city, which is sort of (insidiously) her appeal to Alvy. She really is a cipher at the start, living out some aimless New York fantasy of becoming a singer, presumably at her indulgent family's expense. I sort of think that's necessary for the story, to get Alvy into Pygmalion mode, and the point is maybe that what he's really infatuated with is this woman who's an empty enough vessel to be filled at will according to his own fantasy and need. And of course, in keeping with the Pygmalion myth, once she eventualy gets her act together she moves on and his quest to recover her is doomed.
As for the vacuity or silliness of her actual adventure with the Paul Simon character -- again, I don't quite know how to take Woody's take. The LA scenes always bothered me, in that they reflect so much classic New York snobbery toward California -- and so much resentment and petty tearing down of Annie's openness to new things, whatever their various sillinesses -- but nothing about Alvy's own character suggests that the snobbery or critical perspective is earned. For all his alleged sophistication, he sort of classically moves in circles, obsessively repeats experiences, where Annie seeks and learns and moves on. I don't know if this is a deliberate irony, but given WA's limitations, I suspect not. :)
The closing riff about "needing the eggs" always struck me as nihilistic and despairing, and I walk away with very little sympathy for the self-justifying Alvy, and maybe some sneaking admiration for Annie, who despite her naivete is at least trying things out, having her life and her adventure and going along wherever it takes her.
no subject
Defitinitely word on the New York snobbery. If there's one person you really can't trust it's Woody Allen-that's one of the weird things about Manhattan is there he seems to at least suggest some good ideas about morality that he clearly doesn't follow in real life. He's paranoid and so reads more hostility into LA than exists--all his friends who are out there immediately start saying how New York is dying or this is the place Alvy should be. But remember, this is a guy who hears, "Jew eat?" in "D'you eat?" We should probably assume we're seeing Annie through his eyes as well--if he can't really see her as a person it makes sense he'd imagine her more "molded" by one guy and another.
A lot of Alvy's neurosis, like Allen's, seems a put on to me anyway--he pretends to be sick in LA until he gets out of what he wants to do, then he's fine. And one of Annie's best lines is when he says how he can't get undressed in front of other men and she says, "Fifteen years, huh?" referring to his therapy.
Of the two of them I do think Annie is the better person who's got more going on--and that's a good point especially about her being young. I can't really hold her responsible for the way I feel about this aspect of the character because first, it's Woody Allen who created her that way. The real Annie Hall (Diane Keaton's last name) obviously did have a career. Second, it does seem more just like the time period where we just didn't have the default career-woman stereotype.