Wheee, so much here. I think I'll reply to the posts before delving into the conversation between you and reenka.
I'm going to get slightly sidelined first by the post on the twins. It is kind of interesting if you like and feel for Snape but hate the twins. The author of that essay also cheered along Crouch, Jr. because he just fooled everyone so well. So if you're disliking the twins because they're bullies and mean, isn't that kind of an unfair judgement?
I think I also would dislike the twins personally, were I to meet them. I also would probably dislike Snape if I were in his class--though I'm not sure about that. When I reread the first book again I was in love with Snape's opening lecture and that would have bought him a lot of understanding from me. But I doubt I would have had opportunity to see beneath his mask, the way Harry can but doesn't. That's why I find him so compelling, as a reader. In person it might be harder to separate his abominable behavior from the intriguing thread of who he really is.
But I still think it's easy to figure out why I hate the twins more. Snape is a bully, and he delights in squashing others, but he's also obviously unhappy and driven by a childish misery. Crouch Jr is, well, nuts, and also driven by unhappiness. Bullies who lash out at people because they're unhappy will, in the end, treat you just as badly as any other bully, but it's a little easier to feel sorry for them and identify with them.
Fred and George, on the other hand, seem to be the kind of bully that I hate the most. In high school I termed it "happy malice." It's the kind where they're not acting out some deep-seated rage and misery, they're not unhappy at all, they're just being mean because it's kind of fun. They just like to leave their handprints on the world and don't get or don't care that they might be hurting someone. I don't know why that pisses me off more, but it does. I hate people like that. I think I hate it because the Snapes of the world try to hurt others because they want to destroy something in others, to bring them down. They want to step on that humanity and spirit in others, maybe to make themselves feel better. The Fred & Georges of the world don't even really see that humanity and spirit and don't even know that it might be there to be damaged. That's overstated but I can't think of the right words. The F&G type bullying doesn't even seem to acknowledge that you're a person with feelings. I usually found that harder to take than the people who went out and intentionally tried to hurt your feelings. At least they thought you had some.
Also, the F&G type bullying comes with its own double-bind: they are genuinely surprised if they figure out you're hurt. They don't think they're wrong at all. You must not be able to take a joke.
I think I also dislike them narratively. If anyone, anyone, within the books were to acknowledge that F&G are mean and sometimes cross the line, then I'd have less of a problem with them. But Rowling doens't think there's anything wrong with them. I think some people vehemently hate F&G because they just get away with everything, both within the story and also outside the story, in the narrative judgement. (Sometimes Hermione will slap down F&G. But Hermione's opinions aren't always taken seriously by any other characters, especially her opinions about rules and morals.)
This was too long and must be split. What a surprise.
no subject
I'm going to get slightly sidelined first by the post on the twins. It is kind of interesting if you like and feel for Snape but hate the twins. The author of that essay also cheered along Crouch, Jr. because he just fooled everyone so well. So if you're disliking the twins because they're bullies and mean, isn't that kind of an unfair judgement?
I think I also would dislike the twins personally, were I to meet them. I also would probably dislike Snape if I were in his class--though I'm not sure about that. When I reread the first book again I was in love with Snape's opening lecture and that would have bought him a lot of understanding from me. But I doubt I would have had opportunity to see beneath his mask, the way Harry can but doesn't. That's why I find him so compelling, as a reader. In person it might be harder to separate his abominable behavior from the intriguing thread of who he really is.
But I still think it's easy to figure out why I hate the twins more. Snape is a bully, and he delights in squashing others, but he's also obviously unhappy and driven by a childish misery. Crouch Jr is, well, nuts, and also driven by unhappiness. Bullies who lash out at people because they're unhappy will, in the end, treat you just as badly as any other bully, but it's a little easier to feel sorry for them and identify with them.
Fred and George, on the other hand, seem to be the kind of bully that I hate the most. In high school I termed it "happy malice." It's the kind where they're not acting out some deep-seated rage and misery, they're not unhappy at all, they're just being mean because it's kind of fun. They just like to leave their handprints on the world and don't get or don't care that they might be hurting someone. I don't know why that pisses me off more, but it does. I hate people like that. I think I hate it because the Snapes of the world try to hurt others because they want to destroy something in others, to bring them down. They want to step on that humanity and spirit in others, maybe to make themselves feel better. The Fred & Georges of the world don't even really see that humanity and spirit and don't even know that it might be there to be damaged. That's overstated but I can't think of the right words. The F&G type bullying doesn't even seem to acknowledge that you're a person with feelings. I usually found that harder to take than the people who went out and intentionally tried to hurt your feelings. At least they thought you had some.
Also, the F&G type bullying comes with its own double-bind: they are genuinely surprised if they figure out you're hurt. They don't think they're wrong at all. You must not be able to take a joke.
I think I also dislike them narratively. If anyone, anyone, within the books were to acknowledge that F&G are mean and sometimes cross the line, then I'd have less of a problem with them. But Rowling doens't think there's anything wrong with them. I think some people vehemently hate F&G because they just get away with everything, both within the story and also outside the story, in the narrative judgement. (Sometimes Hermione will slap down F&G. But Hermione's opinions aren't always taken seriously by any other characters, especially her opinions about rules and morals.)
This was too long and must be split. What a surprise.
:)