sistermagpie (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
sistermagpie) wrote2005-10-13 02:19 pm
sistermagpie) wrote2005-10-13 02:19 pm
Love vs. Will (I wanted to call it Love Under Will, but that's taken!)
Well, this is the thing about lists, you never know when I'm going to prattle on so much in a reply that it creates a post in itself. First Slughorn, now...this. But I thought it was interesting because recently I know I was talking to somebody about why Occlumency and throwing off Imperius were so different and why Harry sucks at one and is good at the other. I was reading a discussion about Harry's greatest strengths and weaknesses (does he need to learn to keeps his mind shut like Snape says?) and it got me around to seeing what may be the difference.
Occlumency is not, I don't think, the key to anything for Harry as he can't do it and that seems to be fine. But Snape's parting shots do still sound like something Harry will have to learn in his own way--he's got to have something left to learn about his personality in the last book, after all.
Harry's love will indeed be the thing that saves him etc., and since this is JKR's book she's going to control what defeats evil, but there's only so much moral weight you can give to something that's strictly tempermental before you lose credibility. Harry is openly emotional because that is his natural temperment. He can't hide his emotions for the same reason.
Harry is our hero and so it's his personal strengths that will see him through, and the author has probably chosen a personality to which she herself most relates. The villains, by contrast, do happen to be more able to compartmentalize their emotions, but it can't come completely down to temperment. That would be like a person who is very athletic, for instance, saying, "Well, I'm athletic because I'm healthy and love life and therefore good. Bookish people are therefore afraid of life and unhealthy and therefore bad." Any temperment can be good or evil, the trick is to make the best of your strengths, and seek a balance. It's just that our hero is going to be dealing with his own strengths and weakness, so that's what we're going to see.
The moral of OotP is not that Harry must learn Occlumancy, but Voldemort still uses Harry's nature against him--and he's able to do this because Harry is still not mature, imo. Harry could not and should not ever become Snape, but he's not yet perfect himself. Given that the four houses represent the four elements, a balance between the basic natures of each seems implied in the story.
In fact, Slytherin is the house of water, and water is emotion, not fire (Gryffindor's element). Fire is Will. I do think a strong Will is Harry's nature--thus the ability to throw off Imperius. A mature Harry would have not been as vulnerable to Voldemort in OotP not because he'd lost his emotions but because of his strong Will to resist being dominated. Harry's inability to compartmentalize fits nicely with that--he is not a fragmented person. He is always whole and so directs his will. Therefore when Voldemort manipulates Harry's emotions Harry confuses the two and his will is manipulated to do what Voldemort wants--that's exactly what happens.
The Slytherin books (CoS and HBP) deal with love most openly. If we were talking about cold intellect, that would be air and Ravenclaw. (The author has openly said the houses correspond to the elements and I'm only saying things I see supported in the books themselves.) Slytherins may therefore be able to manipulate their emotions, but this does not have to imply giving them up. Their emotions do not contain the exact type of danger because they are compartmentalized, they don't have the Will that Harry does. Draco is the character JKR describes as a natural Occlumens (Harry is natural thrower-off of Imperius), yet he's not without emotion at all. In fact, his story in HBP seems to be partially about his freeing emotions he has unhealthily repressed with is own Will.
I'm not making Draco and Harry equals here in the text here, but HBP did give them both tasks during the year. Harry did need to learn to consciously use emotions to support his will (like when he uses his dead mother to manipulate Slughorn) more in this book, and not allow his emotions to dominate his Will. (Harry's emotions want to jump Ginny early on, but he controls them. It is only when his entire self gives the okay that he acts on those emotions, setting his Will to getting the girl and of course succeeding.) The other kid, Draco, is encouraged to free the emotions he had repressed by Will. In both cases the dominant strength of the house (Will and Emotion) is the dominant strength of the boy, but only when used with the support of the other elemental strengths. It's not that Harry has to change his nature. On the contrary, to truly be himself is to claim his true strength, his Will, and connect to all the other elements of his personality through that. His emotions will always give strength to his Will; he just can't let them *replace* his Will. Draco and Snape have so far been weakened the opposite way, I think.
So Harry does have to learn a bit from Snape there, but Snape has to learn from Harry as well. Harry, I'm confident, will learn what he has to learn. Snape maybe won't. So far he hasn't, so he has not grown. He's still as Slytherin and so emotional as ever, but perhaps still trying to repress it.
Occlumency is not, I don't think, the key to anything for Harry as he can't do it and that seems to be fine. But Snape's parting shots do still sound like something Harry will have to learn in his own way--he's got to have something left to learn about his personality in the last book, after all.
Harry's love will indeed be the thing that saves him etc., and since this is JKR's book she's going to control what defeats evil, but there's only so much moral weight you can give to something that's strictly tempermental before you lose credibility. Harry is openly emotional because that is his natural temperment. He can't hide his emotions for the same reason.
Harry is our hero and so it's his personal strengths that will see him through, and the author has probably chosen a personality to which she herself most relates. The villains, by contrast, do happen to be more able to compartmentalize their emotions, but it can't come completely down to temperment. That would be like a person who is very athletic, for instance, saying, "Well, I'm athletic because I'm healthy and love life and therefore good. Bookish people are therefore afraid of life and unhealthy and therefore bad." Any temperment can be good or evil, the trick is to make the best of your strengths, and seek a balance. It's just that our hero is going to be dealing with his own strengths and weakness, so that's what we're going to see.
The moral of OotP is not that Harry must learn Occlumancy, but Voldemort still uses Harry's nature against him--and he's able to do this because Harry is still not mature, imo. Harry could not and should not ever become Snape, but he's not yet perfect himself. Given that the four houses represent the four elements, a balance between the basic natures of each seems implied in the story.
In fact, Slytherin is the house of water, and water is emotion, not fire (Gryffindor's element). Fire is Will. I do think a strong Will is Harry's nature--thus the ability to throw off Imperius. A mature Harry would have not been as vulnerable to Voldemort in OotP not because he'd lost his emotions but because of his strong Will to resist being dominated. Harry's inability to compartmentalize fits nicely with that--he is not a fragmented person. He is always whole and so directs his will. Therefore when Voldemort manipulates Harry's emotions Harry confuses the two and his will is manipulated to do what Voldemort wants--that's exactly what happens.
The Slytherin books (CoS and HBP) deal with love most openly. If we were talking about cold intellect, that would be air and Ravenclaw. (The author has openly said the houses correspond to the elements and I'm only saying things I see supported in the books themselves.) Slytherins may therefore be able to manipulate their emotions, but this does not have to imply giving them up. Their emotions do not contain the exact type of danger because they are compartmentalized, they don't have the Will that Harry does. Draco is the character JKR describes as a natural Occlumens (Harry is natural thrower-off of Imperius), yet he's not without emotion at all. In fact, his story in HBP seems to be partially about his freeing emotions he has unhealthily repressed with is own Will.
I'm not making Draco and Harry equals here in the text here, but HBP did give them both tasks during the year. Harry did need to learn to consciously use emotions to support his will (like when he uses his dead mother to manipulate Slughorn) more in this book, and not allow his emotions to dominate his Will. (Harry's emotions want to jump Ginny early on, but he controls them. It is only when his entire self gives the okay that he acts on those emotions, setting his Will to getting the girl and of course succeeding.) The other kid, Draco, is encouraged to free the emotions he had repressed by Will. In both cases the dominant strength of the house (Will and Emotion) is the dominant strength of the boy, but only when used with the support of the other elemental strengths. It's not that Harry has to change his nature. On the contrary, to truly be himself is to claim his true strength, his Will, and connect to all the other elements of his personality through that. His emotions will always give strength to his Will; he just can't let them *replace* his Will. Draco and Snape have so far been weakened the opposite way, I think.
So Harry does have to learn a bit from Snape there, but Snape has to learn from Harry as well. Harry, I'm confident, will learn what he has to learn. Snape maybe won't. So far he hasn't, so he has not grown. He's still as Slytherin and so emotional as ever, but perhaps still trying to repress it.
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!
You know, that always gets to me. When people say that Lucius doesn't love his son. Obviously, Narcissa does. But people still think that Lucius doesn't. And that bothers me, because there's so much evidence that Lucius loves his son as much as Narcissa.
How many times have we been told that he was one of the first to join back to the right side after Voldemort fell? How many times were we told that he managed to gain a respectable face in the wizarding world? How many times were we told that he spoils his son? How many times were we told that Lucius believed Voldemort gone for good? Most importantly -- how many times have we been beaten over the head with the fact that Lucius ran from the Dark Mark in the fourth book, that he gave away a precious relic of his old master for his personal use, that he and Snape maintain a close relationship, that Voldemort called him a "slippery" friend?
I've always imagined that Snape works mostly for himself, more than anybody else. He'll follow whatever side has the best to offer him at the moment. And Lucius, I think, is a lot like that. We've seen him a whole bunch of times in the series, but it was only in OotP when he was acting for someone else. Every other time, it was for himself.
Here's how I think it went down: I think that, like Snape, Lucius went willingly to Voldemort, with a wife who believed just as strongly in Voldemort's cause (even if she herself wasn't an actual Death Eater), and soon he became a part of Voldemort's inner-circle -- probably along with Snape. His wife became pregnant and both of them joyed in having a son they could raise to serve the Dark Lord after them. Everything was going along just great -- until his son was actually born. And I think that as soon as Lucius became a father, he wanted to bow down out of the Death Eaters. Imagine the risks a Death Eater father would have for baby Draco, after all -- he could be a target for Voldemort, for the Ministry, for Dumbledore; he could be called into service by Voldemort some day (and that was too dangerous a lifestyle for Lucius' son); Lucius could die or be thrown into Azkaban, leaving his son to grow up without a father. But Lucius wasn't stupid enough to try and back out -- he definitely knew the story of Regulus Black, so he stuck with it for the final year before Voldemort fell. And then here's the thing -- I think that he was secretly glad that Voldemort fell, because then he could focus on being a father, and his son wouldn't have to grow up with the stigma of a Death Eater dad and the threats and dangers that went with it. So he jumped right over to the right side, built up a proper face, was a good daddy and husband. And he and Narcissa protected their son desperately from the life of a Death Eater.
I mean, I'm not saying Lucius is good. He's still an asshole that doesn't care how many people in the world die, and how horribly they die. Just so long as it's not his son, or his wife (whom he has to love a lot, if he was willing to change something as huge as the school his son spent the next 7 years of his life in just because she didn't want him too far away). And, yeah, I get that he was a bitch at Borgin and Burkes, but my dad's like that a bit, and I'd never think he doesn't love me. He'll be very quick to say no to his son for a good reason (come on - did Draco need the racing broom? He was going to Hogwarts in less than a month, and he would only be coming back for Christmas holiday. By the time he actually has more than a few days to ride his room, a better one would have been out - and a better one *did* come out, didn't it). But Draco, being the baby he is, will throw a fit, get all sulky, and in the end it comes down to the fact that Lucius can't stand the idea of his son actually hating him, so he turns into a puddle of goo and gives his son what he wants, the racing broom and the Hand of Glory both.
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!
I remember on FAP there was once a thread asking if Draco loved his parents--I was like...huh? First, any kid not loving their parents is kind of extreme, so you've got to give me a good reason for it, but this kid? When has he ever not seemed to love them? But people were willing to say he just liked them for the prestige they had--it was kind of hilarious the kind of smooth operator they were making him into. The idea just seemed to be that he couldn't possibly do anything so positive as love anyone, so this had to be explained away.
But really...it's not that the Malfoys loving each other makes them good guys or undoes all the bad things they do, but it does seem like it's their one potential salvation. It certainly may be the thing that does give Draco that sense of right and wrong in the tower so that he doesn't kill. He's never really hated anyone, he's never really felt totally without love, so he does have a certain level of compassion. Sure he's often mean to others, but even he there's some lines he doesn't cross.
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!
I mean - Dad! And you know, I always got the feeling that Draco *did* call his father that. When he's talking to Lucius directly, I always got the feeling he used "Dad." With friends, it's "father" but to Lucius himself, it was always, to me, "Dad." I do that to, you know. I call my Dad Baba, but not all my friends are going to know what that means, so I say "my dad." But I was still surprised when Draco said it. Very pleasantly surprised. And I think that's when I really realized what's been happening for him. It's not just his father that's in Azkaban, it's his *dad*.
(Arrgh, out of curiosity, you know how you always link to the entry you write? Like, you have a little blurb about it, and then you link to the actual entry, when it's a long one? How do you do that?)
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!
To get a link to another entry you do this (take out the spaces for it to work):
< a href=" URL GOES Here "> TEXT YOU WANT TO APPEAR GOES HERE
This livejournal FAQ site has the instructions for all sorts of things like that. (http://www.livejournal.com/support/faq.bml)
Re: I GOT A LJ!!! YES!!! FINALLY!!!