Ron and Hermione at the Yule Ball

[sistermagpie]

In his totally enjoyable read-through of GoF, pauraque has gotten to the Yule Ball, and Ron's treatment of Hermione therein. It made me look at it from Ron's pov

In his recap of chapter 23 he says :

'Viktor's just gone to get some drinks.'

Ron gave her a withering look.

'Viktor?' he said. 'Hasn't he asked you to call him Vicky yet?'

Hermione looked at him in surprise.

'What's up with you?' she said.

'If you don't know,' said Ron scathingly, 'I'm not going to tell you.' (366)

'[H]e said he'd been coming to the library every day to try and talk to me, but he hadn't been able to pluck up the courage!'

[...]

'Yeah, well -- that's his story,' said Ron nastily.

'And what's that supposed to mean?'

'Obvious, isn't it? He's Karkaroff's student, isn't he? He knows who you hang around with ... he's just trying to get closer to Harry[...]' (367)

pauraque: Goddamn! I generally like Ron, but he's such a bitch in this scene. The "If you don't know, I'm not telling you" is especially outrageous (I despise it when people say that to me), but telling his supposed friend that she only got a date because he's trying to spy on Harry? Again, I don't really get it... If the idea is that he's attracted to her, WHY is he constantly putting her down? WHY does he keep going on about how absurd it is that anyone could BE attracted to her? He honestly sounds like he's jealous of her for dating him, not jealous of him for dating her. No slash goggles required. Hermione is right to get upset.

This made me first realize that Ron does the same thing to Hermione as Arthur does to Percy. She shows up pleased with herself for having been chosen by someone and looking nice, and Ron says Viktor could never like her for herself, he just wants to get to Harry. So she's even more humiliated, because she was feeling so good the moment before.

As pauraque points out, Ron really is a bitch in this scene. I started thinking about why. We know the Weasleys, for all of Ginny's sass, are a very traditional family. All the boys are very protective of their little sister. Ron's "almost calling Ginny a slut," as angry as it makes fandom, is not just Ron almost calling Ginny a slut, it's Ron concerned that his sister will be called a slut by others for making out with people in public--think Tony Manero to Angela in Saturday Night Fever: "Are you happy now? Now you're a pig." It's ugly, but Ron's and the Twins' concern isn't just about their being stupid, it's about how they see the world working. Ron's not really wrong after all--people in fandom actually do call Ginny a slut!

That was a total tangent, written really just to point out that the Weasleys are very traditional and often unsophisticated when it comes to men and women, and this has always suited them just fine. They make a distinction between "girls like this" and "girls like that." And I think that unfortunate, ugly subtext is present in Ron's accusations of Hermione here. His anger at her and his accusations, to me, echo Molly's "scarlet woman" accusations of later on.

But I don't think that's all it is. I don't think the problem is that Ron thinks Hermione is a whore in the scene. I think it's something more about Ron. We're hit over the head with the fact that the boys don't even immediately recognize Hermione when she walks into the ball. (I'll quote pauraque here because he's funny>:

It was Hermione.

But she didn't look like Hermione at all. She had done something with her hair; it was no longer bushy, but sleek and shiny, and twisted up into an elegant knot at the back of her head. She was wearing robes made of a floaty, periwinkle-blue material, and she was holding herself differently somehow -- or maybe it was merely the absence of the twenty or so books she usually had slung over her back.

[...]

Parvati was gazing at Hermione in unflattering disbelief. She wasn't the only one, either[...] (360)

And her eyes were violet, and she was the last of the cat people, and she was secretly Sirius's daughter, and a flying unicorn Animagus, and and and!

*snicker* Honestly.

While my first thought is to think Ron and Harry don't recognize Hermione because as described she sounds like a chaperone in her periwinkle and modest twist hair, we get that she's supposed to be suddenly pretty. We're not told she's wearing make-up, perhaps because Harry might not think of it or perhaps because, in the fine tradition of Mary Sues, Hermione does not have to wear it, but I'm assuming she is enjoying the effects make-up can give even without using it: it makes her look different.

She is different, probably even more so for Ron. Ron, I think, divides the world very clearly between one type of girl and another. This is why he gets uncomfortable when the one kind (like his sister) acts like the other kind (by making out in a hallway). In Hermione's case, though, I don't think Ron is upset by Hermione dressing in a way that suggests she's sexually available in a general way. I think her showing up as a different girl with Viktor makes him upset that she's not this girl with *him.*

I mean, from the girls' pov--certainly from Hermione's--it's very empowering and sensible to say you're not going to waste time dolling yourself up everyday. But from the boys' pov it may be more straightforward: you make an effort to look pretty for him and not for me. Ron spends time with the bushy-haired Hermione who snaps and nags. Viktor comes along and she goes to great lengths to do what Ron isn't worth--get dolled up. I would suspect that up until this moment it never occurred to Ron that she *could* look like that, because in his mind there's girls who do and girls who don't. It's all very well to demand, on principle, that a boy be less shallow, but they really do often see a huge difference depending how one is dressed.

See, there's always a lot of emphasis put on the fact that Ron never treats Hermione well--he takes her for granted, he drools over Fleur, he doesn't even notice she's a girl. But by showing up at the ball with Viktor looking like that, Hermione is doing the exact same thing as Ron, making it clear that she does not find him desirable or care about him desiring her, it's *Viktor* she desires and wishes to find her desirable. pauraque describes Ron here as telling his friend that it's absurd that anyone could be actually attracted to her, but that may not be his intention. He doesn't insult Hermione's attempt at transformation or criticize her attempt to look pretty. It's more like he's accusing her for looking pretty all along and criticizing the man she's looking pretty for--he has nefarious motives.

And Hermione continues to do this throughout the series. Angry that Ron doesn't notice her, Hermione becomes even more adamant about not going out of her way to "chase" him. *He's* supposed to notice she's attractive and show her he has. Instead he goes after Lavender-and what did Lavender do? She treated Ron like a boy! She flirted with him, batted her eyelashes, made it clear she was interested. Everyone seems to take it for granted that it's obvious Hermione likes Ron (Harry knows it, but perhaps a "real" Harry, one who isn't really a fictional construct written by a woman, would not), but really, this is the only time in canon when Hermione really suggests that she's interested in this type of thing, and it's for somebody else. It's not that unbelievable to think that Ron, upon seeing Hermione at the ball, is drawing the same line that Hermione feels Ron is drawing for Fleur: that's a person I'm interested in sexually; you do not get that kind of notice from me. Ron's "Hermione, you're a girl!" line in GoF is pointed to as an example of his cluelessness--Viktor immediately saw her as a girl. But ironically, Hermione has yet to actually do the reverse with Ron. It's Lavender who treats him like a boy, not Hermione.

With Hermione safely tucked into the same category as "sisters" for Ron, he's probably unaware of how his staring at Fleur comes off to her--he doesn't think Hermione thinks about stuff like that anyway. As far as he's concerned at that moment, any romance within the Trio is unthinkable. Then, from his pov, Hermione suddenly reveals herself to have been a "real girl" all along, only that part of her is reserved for boys other than Ron, just as Ron's attention to female beauty seems to her to be reserved for girls like Fleur.

This is the reason Ron is such a bitch in the scene. He's not just putting her down out of spite, or being insensitive. I think he sees Hermione's appearance at the ball as a rejection, a sign that Hermione withholds this from him for a reason, and he automatically falls into a clumsy defense of himself: Oh, so you're "one of those girls" for him? I'm not good enough for you? Well, I'm the one who likes you for yourself. He's just trying to get to Harry.

I think this is why JKR can drag this romance out in ways that H/G could never have been. Harry and Ginny have never been "just friends." They began their relationship as a potential couple with Ginny's crush. Not to mention the fact that Ginny has always been a potential love object, period. Throughout the series she's pursued and been pursued by males. There's no "wait, you're a girl?" moment with Ginny, because being a girl has always been her main defining feature.

p.s. So I see one comment about changing the "currents" on my flist and finally tackled S2. I felt like I had to try to keep things as close to the same as possible, but I'm still tweaking. I think I spent about 5 hours last night working on getting things almost the same, just to change that one thing!

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's interesting--I definitely think there's enough clues there to make them a *type* of girl, but as with teachers like Snape, we probably have different associations with them. Like, for me "dislikeable" is not one I would associate with this type of girl. I might not be friends with them, but they seem more silly than dislikeable. But that's probably got to do with people filling things in from their own experience. Rowling wants me to love Ginny, and post-OotP she's probably the only character I really consider unlikeable.

[funwithrage.livejournal.com]

I honestly think a lot of the character-arguments in fandom can be put down to "this character resembles X type of person, who I loathe/love." I find spunky bitchiness hot, and therefore like Ginny; I loathe flakey-oh-my-Cosmo-horoscope-says-we're-in-love silliness, and therefore want to smack the Giggly Gryffindor Group.


And I think it's pretty cool that the characters *do* resemble real people, or at least types of real people, enough for us to all do that.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Huh? Which girl is being referred to here, please?

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Really? That's very interesting, because I always got the strong impression from the books as a whole that heart rules head - often to my annoyance, since I'm not a particularly emotional person myself! Theory and facts usually end up getting dismissed over instincts (like Harry following the Prince's notes over his Potions textbook instructions.)
So I guess in a way, it seems a little disingenous of the narrative to show Lavendar and Parvati as an example of blind faith in feelings; when say, Harry, is usually rewarded for his, even when it leads to him supporting ideas and people he knows are wrong. (Such as his loyalty to Hagrid as a teacher, even though he realises Hagrid's incompetence eventually.)

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is really that Hermione's (and Ginny's) methods work in their universe, where honesty doesn't.
Ginny pursues Harry openly in CoS and he's revolted (as he behaves after Cho kisses him, also.)
She goes to great lengths to manipulate him by changing her personality and making him jealous, and this is the tactic that lands him.
And this isn't to criticise the girls solely either, although there's a very strong sense from the text that even good women naturally excel in manipulation, probably because to be a sexually aggressive female in any way is considered worse and less natural.
Because of course the guys territorialism is also condoned and seen as natural rather than possessive, controlling and sexist; which be more my reading of a similiar situation.
When Harry can 'have' Ginny, he doesn't want her. (I'm inclined to cut Ron a tad more slack, since he's a lot more obviously insecure; but it's a pattern of behaviour of his character that he only wants what he can't have, really. I think no_remorse went into this in detail at one point... And of course, Ron can 'have' Lavendar, but he doesn't want her.)
When another boy shows interest, it becomes yet another competition for him to win (and of course, Harry's 'monster' doesn't just rise at Dean, a guy he's apparently always gotten along with, prior to this; it also agrees with Ron's opinion of her dating other people.) - like how their kissing scene just has to include that Romilda and Dean have 'lost', carrying on the old standby in these books - you haven't won until someone else has lost, which is half the joy of victory.

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

I’d not noticed this parallel before, but find it rather enlightening. I’ve always considered Arthur Weasley a complete and utter bastard for his treatment of Percy (possibly because I remember with shame an incident at school when I accidentally told the girl who won the art prize that she’d probably got it because the other two contenders, of whom I was one, had already won prizes in other subjects); it seems so trivializing and mean, however much there may be some small justification. I forgive it in Ron, who is young and thoroughly embarrassed by the whole situation (and Hermione could equally well have asked him to go to the ball with her), but it’s a serious black mark against Arthur. The group idea seems to make sense, especially with the group expanded to be the Order as well as the OBHWF.

such devoted sisters

[nineveh-uk.livejournal.com]

How about Bellatrix and Narcissa? It's clear in "Spinner's End" that Bellatrix is not only worried about Narcissa going to Snape for help because she suspects Snape’s loyalty to the Dark Lord, but also because if he is loyal, that will put Narcissa in danger of exposure for leaking the plot. I definitely get a sense of ‘protective elder sister’ about Bella throughout the scene - standing behind the sofa etc.

Re: such devoted sisters

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's true-I really liked the whole Bella/Cissy thing in HBP.

[ook.livejournal.com]

Ginny, of course.

[funwithrage.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I'm not the biggest fan of the "search your feelings, you know it to be true" thing either. (The "you will defeat Voldie with the power of LOVE!" thing made my teeth itch. And gave me unpleasant Sailor Moon flashbacks.) Harry irritates me less, though, for the most part, OotP temper tantrums aside; I'm not sure if it's because he's the hero and thus portrayed in a more sympathetic light or if, as I said above, Lav and Parvati just seem to belong to a particular type whose RL members I want to smack. Or both.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

Ah. Just a tad confused because there's a couple of commenters on lj who have a tendency to describe Cho in a similiar way, and what with this discussion encompassing so many different female characters...

Much as I detest Ginny; Harry's kind of immature and spiteful himself (and we know how badly he takes to losing, of course). YMMV, naturally. Of course, since Ginny's whole character is based around being like Harry (sharing his friends, interests, talents...) I guess that's not surprising.

[ook.livejournal.com]

I never saw Cho acting in the spiteful, hurtful way that Ginny did. Nor did Cho behave like a poor sport when playing Quidditch.

I think that nearly EVERY student (among the main and secondary characters) in book six acted like a jerk. Luna and Neville seemed to be the only ones behaving themselves. Hmmm...neither of them got "paired-up" either. Did they escape JKR's teen hormone rampage? ;)

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

No, I like Cho, personally, and I thought she seemed a nicer character than several of the main ones. But hey, no accounting for taste!

Agreed.

[gingersomething.livejournal.com]

it's not really that unusual, from what i've seen.

[gingersomething.livejournal.com]

maybe because they're women and not girls? friendships with girls never went well with me in school, but now that i'm older, it's a lot easier. when i was younger, the only people i could deal with were boys.

[copa-cetic.livejournal.com]

Someone was talking about how Ginny is shallow for dumping Michael and Dean-but think about it-when you're fifteen, you don't really need much of an excuse to break up with someone if you think that you're not compatible with the other person. That's the thing with teen dating, it doesn't have to be serious, and I thought the whole portrait hole thing was just tensions mounting over something stupid.

[gingersomething.livejournal.com]

you're exactly right. i think sometimes people forget that these kids are still supposed to be kids. that's why they don't act maturely, haha.

[linnet-melody.livejournal.com]

I agree, it's not all that unusual. Personally, I'm the only girl in my family. Surrounded by boys, my mom remarried and moved away in my early teens, and I loved books. The reading, not really the studying type. Three younger brothers who I had loads of fun with and helped get into and out of trouble growing up. I *understood* them, which was not the case with the females my own age.

Hermione, I believe, is an only child? With really smart parents who likely praised their little girl when she learned something new or pursued something that engaged her interest. She wanted approval? Booklearning was probably the best way to gain it.

Now, Ginny is another story. She's the youngest in a large family and learned to capitalize on her femaleness to manipulate and distract and cajole when she felt she needed to. I don't think either parent really had the time to "dote" on her, given their attention was divided between so many other kids, but she's definitely more a people-oriented person. She knows how to handle boys, she's learned the tricks to gaining attention, and she capitalizes on it.

Hermione's just never bothered adding those to her repertoire. She hasn't needed them before now.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Hi, I got here from the Daily Snitch. Sorry to just jump in like this! I agree with almost everything you're saying, both in the main post and in this answer. It's a very interesting essay.

However, I don't think Cho got disapproval from the text, just from Harry. To me it read like Cho wanted something from Harry that he didn't have, and Harry wanted something from Cho that she didn't have. They had both gone and made an image of how the other person was, and then they found out that reality was quite a bit different.

I mean, isn't it fairly obvious that Harry says all the wrong things? He's acting his age, and Cho needed soemthing else right then. I thought it was more of a demonstration of how Harry was still clueless about girls than anything else, heh.

Hmmmm Snow!!

[monkeymois.livejournal.com]

Thats really interesting I didn't think that complex into it
I just thought that Ron was just jealous
Adn with Hermione well like me as long as my hair is tied up and I have clothes on Im sweet but on nice occasions I do dress-up quite abit but I really liked your points very intelligent thinking

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Good point--yes, the disapproval was from Harry (and Ginny, who is very dismissive of her) and fandom. I didn't think she came off that badly at all, personally, especially since Harry did pretty much everything wrong!

Re: Hmmmm Snow!!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I hadn't thought about it this much either until it came up on the readthrough, but I'm glad I did.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

But doesn't Harry usually end up in trouble when he acts with his heart rather than his head? To me, OotP and HBP was all about him reaching the peak of that type of behaviour and then start to learn to, as someone recently said in an essay, let his will take control over his emotions.

Just take the Potions textbook as an example; he uses a charm he has no idea what it does when he's attacked by Draco, and what happens? He nearly kills him, and he's horrified. If he hadn't simply reacted to what he was feeling, he could have used a jinx that he actually know.

(Oh, and wasn't the notes in the potions textbook simply additional instructions to the recepy already in it? He'd have to learn both, right?)

I think Parvati and Lavender are just shown as a bit more romantic than Harry's closest friends. It's just there as a contrast IMO. Perhaps to show that there are all sorts of people in the same House? ;)

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I sat there laughing as I read it because Harry managed to say the worst things possible! It was funny because it seemed so real; the typical teenage fantasy relationship gone wrong.

And Harry didn't understand a thing, which I found adorable; but at the same time I couldn't help but feel sorry for poor Cho who got such a dense boyfriend. I guess now she knows not to date boys younger than yourself while you're still in your teens...

Re: here via the snitch

[baseballchica03.livejournal.com]

That's exactly how I see it. And we have to keep in mind that these kids are just... well, kids. I know I'm no better than Ron and Hermione NOW, much less than when I was sixteen.