sistermagpie: Classic magpie (Two ways of looking at a magpie)
sistermagpie ([personal profile] sistermagpie) wrote2005-12-16 03:58 pm

No happy families

I was reading something today that brought up that old HP argument, Weasleys vs. Malfoys and it once again made me ask:

Are there any really happy families in HP canon?

The point of this post is not to judge families for being happy or not, or play them off each other. It’s that JKR seems to see all families as being combinations of love and tragedy, comfort and pain. It's pretty realistic that way. Nobody really seems to escape family fucking them up. Even Amos Diggory, whose love of his son seems so total in GoF, would probably come across as flawed and sometimes hurtful if we saw him interacting with Cedric in canon (the first time we see him he's embarrassing his son, actually, though it's obvious he's just really proud of him). Is Luna's interest in her father's paper due to a genuine shared mind, or is she trying to draw closer to the parent she has left the only way she can—through his newspaper rather than himself—since for all we know he's withdrawn into that and left Luna coping with the loss of her mother on her own. (She herself could have retreated into her fantasy beliefs to cope with pain--maybe he has too.)

This usually seems to come down to the Weasleys vs. the Malfoys, and what often happens is someone will say that the Malfoys are "better" and someone else will say Malfoy-fans are just crazy and the Weasleys are one big happy family. The thing is, though, the Weasleys aren't one big happy anything--and that's not said as a big trash of the Weasleys or a compliment to the Malfoys. They just aren't. They love each other, sure, but they also have a lot of tension simmering under the surface--and that's canon. Percy's exile is not a case of a bunch of shiny happy people betrayed by their suddenly alien son, shaking their heads in bewilderment. That blow up is built up over a few books with lots of antagonism of Percy and from Percy.

A lot of families could have weathered that fight between Arthur and Percy. But part of the problem is that Percy has apparently said what he's not supposed to say--that the family struggles financially and maybe this isn't just because Arthur is too noble to get the promotion he deserves. That’s not just about money—money can stand for a whole lot of other things, and I think it does here. In GoF the twins are, according to Ron, becoming very obsessed with money, and turning to blackmail. This doesn't have to make them DEs or evil, but I think there’s frustration there coming out in a different form. When Percy says what he says everyone has their own resentment ready to throw back at him, including Arthur. He's not just offended on principle that Percy doesn't trust Dumbledore. Basically, you don't have a family where one person is hated and hates without some well of real resentment to draw on there. The Weasley siblings are often described as damaging each other, and among the ones we see there seems to be a clear distinction between the aggressors who are sometimes too aggressive (Ginny and the Twins) and the resentful passive ones (Percy and Ron). This doesn't make the Weasleys a "bad family" as opposed to a "good one." It just says that families can hurt each other more than outsiders can--and that seems to be a pretty big theme of the series.

The Malfoys, by contrast, can sure be held up as sticking together. Draco, at least up until book VI, seems to have no criticisms of his father like Percy has of Arthur. But the Malfoys, to understate the point, have problems of their own. There's the fact that the kid is taught to be bigoted and to value cruelty and to believe in a psychopath, obviously, but also by HBP I can imagine that Draco could also be realizing that even on a personal level his family has fucked him up. He's followed his father blindly for years, just like his father wanted, and Lucius has led him straight into a dark alley and disappeared. He’s also an example of a kid really trying to be his father and simply not having it in him. So on the surface, the Malfoys are a pretty bad family, but they still do manage to also produce some form of the positive side of family: they do actually seem to love each other and want to do right by each other to an extent (at least Draco and Narcissa do, since we don't see Lucius' reaction to the crisis in HBP, but I think he has some basically good impulses towards his family mixed in with all his bad ones). The most important thing Draco really has to draw on is the same thing as the Weasleys do--despite the faults, there's love there. When everything else is breaking down in HBP, that appears to be the only thing that really keeps him going.

Neville is another Pureblood family often contrasted with the Malfoys, but there again you've got these relatives who seem to be at the heart of all of Neville's problems. People cheer when McGonagall tells Neville his grandmother should learn to be proud of the grandson she's got instead of the one she wishes she had, but jeez, to me that line is frankly humiliating! Would you want some teacher to tell you your grandmother is disappointed in you? Not that Neville doesn't know that already. I was recently talking about his boggart scene and I really do think that part of the point of Snape/Neville is that Snape isn't just a mean teacher but also a symbol of the way he's seen by his family. His grandmother seems to constantly be comparing him negatively to his father, not even giving him his own wand to use.

But on the other hand, that doesn't mean she doesn't care about him. Some of her harshness is probably tied to her grief over her son, which she shows in a different way that Neville does. She seems to share some of Snape's ideas about tough love, taking Neville to see his catatonic parents (possibly frightening him by doing that) and pushing him to talk about them because to not do so, for her, is to be ashamed of them (while Neville is not ashamed but finds it painful). He seems to get good presents from his family--thoughtful presents. He and his gran do seem to talk. And more than that, Neville has his mother, who is just sentient enough to show him she loves him (which is why theories that the Droobles Gum Wrapper are a clue to some mystery are so wrong--the gum wrapper is the ultimate example of "it's the thought that count" and its meaninglessness is what makes it so damn meaningful). ::sniffles over Neville::

Barty Crouch Jr., for all the judgments of the main characters, also comes from a family that includes both pain and love. His mother loves him, obviously, but I think his father probably did too. Re-reading the scene where he's stumbling around in the woods, saying it's his fault and introducing his son who’s gotten "12 OWLS," I can't help but think that yes, he too loved his son just as he hurt him. I think when he says it's "his fault" he is speaking about Barty's being a DE as well as Barty escaping. As a control freak, I think Crouch would see this as the case even at the time--and perhaps see Barty in Azkaban as some attempt to fix things. That's why this man, whom most of the Weasleys consider to be a complete failure as a family man, manages to inspire such devotion in their own black sheep, Percy. Ron often darkly suggests Percy would "pull a Crouch" and not protect his family even if they've committed a crime. Ironically, while Percy rejects the family, he has not turned them in for anything and distances himself from Scrimgeor's attempt to use the family on Christmas (I’m not saying Percy does nothing bad to his family, just saying that it’s not this, exactly). Meanwhile those who claim to think family should stick together offer no such universal acceptance of Percy. It's the "good" side of the Crouch family that keeps Barty alive and helps him escape.

The Blacks, of course, are as crazy as you get, but there too yeah, I'm seeing love and pain, not flat abuse. I believe Kreacher when he says Sirius broke his mother's heart, and when Sirius talks about Regulus as being an idiot I do hear him trying to kill lingering feelings he has for his brother: Why did you have to be so stupid? Sirius is ultimately destroyed by a family that has already been destroyed, and this is partly because he keeps feeling hurt by them and trying to hurt them back. He's "waging war" on the house where he grew up, and all that's left of it then is a crazy house elf who keeps enacting these scenes of family love that to Sirius are obscene, a screaming portrait and a mad cousin who knocks him through a curtain. Had Sirius been able to come to terms with his family, accept them as part of himself, he probably would have lived and had a happier life. He ran away from them once, and when he was brought back and couldn't run away they won. And it’s the same on their part—they blast him off the tapestry, and in the end he’s the only one left in the house.

Perhaps in the afterlife the family will be somewhat healed--at least I hope so. I can't help but see Sirius and Regulus finally making up two halves of a whole--two brothers and two Shadows, etc. Sirius was good but ultimately impotent and kept from doing anything. Regulus was the bad one but possibly able to act in the end. (Personally, I can't help but always picture Sirius as actually being the favorite despite being the black sheep, but that's a different essay.)

The Durlseys are meanwhile another family at an extreme. All their abuse gets pushed onto Harry, the stand in for the family Petunia has lost. Dudley is so little chastised he's confused when he's described as abused. His parents always say he's right, always say he's great. Anything he can't do isn't worth doing. They make excuses for him. And he's totally fucked up.

And of course we see what appears to be one snapshot of the Snapes at home and...yeah. Not so good there. And yet the Snape Harry liked came out of his mother's textbook—there’s those hints of love. (Not to mention, do Dumbledore and Aberforth talk? I think JKR said Dumbledore's family is important, yet they're never seen together despite living nearby--is Aberforth even at the funeral that we hear?)

The happiest family in the Potterverse appears to be the Potters--and it's no shock that this is because they're dead. Harry almost seems to get his strength from the way he was given a gift of that pure familial love of the mother for her child--a love that all of these mothers also have--and then the woman obligingly died before she could fuck it up by having to deal with her kid as he grows up as a human. So Harry still has both the love and the pain. Hagrid, btw, is probably another good example of that type of thing. His mother left him when he was small, and he seems to seek to fill that hole she left through animals. But I think that the animals he chooses are supposed to be significant that way, not just because his mother, too, was kind of monstrous but because Hagrid's ideas about his animals are, well, pretty fucked up. In his way he's a bit like the Dursleys cooing over Dudley and defending everything he does even when he bites or squashes some kid by sitting on him. It's an idealized version of parent/child relations (or sibling relations with Grawp) and as such not a completely good thing. Harry, too, sort of has this problem since for all we're told about his capacity to love he's actually not that good dealing with people. Harry tends to have great waves of affection when people are pleasing him and feel very betrayed when they let him down--which makes sense since that has been his experience of love: you were perfect, and then you were gone.

Phew! That was a lot longer than I expected it to be. I just started babbling about families. The basic idea being that this is why it drives me crazy when any family gets made one-dimensional either way, because it seems like it really goes against canon to both say a family is just completely negative or to say a family--usually the Weasleys--is ideal. I honestly don't even know if JKR *could* write One Big Happy Anybody's Family, because she just seems too aware of how people, especially families, fuck each other up and hurt each other. It’s not just that Voldemort comes from a bad family and Harry from a good one, it’s that while Harry’s family was good and then gone, Voldemort’s was just always gone. (Which of course probably means he never bonded and a sociopath is an expected result, but anyway…)

[identity profile] onomatopoetry.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 10:51 pm (UTC)(link)
First, a little note; in Harry/Cedric shipping, (yes, I have hung out in that part of fandom a bit. The movie sort of forced me to. Eh. But I digress) the Diggory family relationship is generally portrayed as a little strained, as Cedric doing the High Profile thing more out of loyalty to his father than because he really wants to. Personally, I find that a less-than-satisfactory way of explaining a Hufflepuff "hero" (or high profile kid, champion, what you will) but it's interesting that that corner of fandom sort of unanimously made that decision.

Second: yeah, the Weasleys have always struck me as not at all as nice as people tend to want to describe them. And I like that. The first lines from a character we hear about them is Ron expressing frustration. But we -and Harry- have also learned that Ron's frustration is often combined with, and standing in front of, affection. I find this typical of the whole family; they argue and bitch and hiss and yell (Molly's temper really is off the normal scale, but I don't have the energy to think about that right now) but they do love each other. Even Percy; they do all the crappy things because they believe that they know what is best for the other(s) (Percy for the entire family, for Percy, Arthur Ron for Ginny, Molly for the twins, and for Bill [the hair scenario] Ginny for Bill [although she doesn't tell him] etc.) What is that if not typical family behaviour, although it's driven in absurdum by their cheer number, the magic, and the tense situation?

I was going to say something on how Fleur fit in here, but I was too tired.

[identity profile] luleh.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Wandered over here from hither and thither and this is a total non sequitur but you've just made me wonder about something:

Re-reading the scene where he's stumbling around in the woods, saying it's his fault and introducing his son who’s gotten "12 OWLS,"

Another kid who probably used a Time Turner! Both Bill and Percy got 12 Owls and Hermione would have been on course to take 12 OWLs had she kept Divination and Muggle Studies, for which she would have needed the Time Turner. So we've got 3 kids who likely used Time Turners for 3 years, unless Hogwarts changed the structure of classes when Hermione started her third year. And if those 4 students did it, I'd have to think a few ambitious Ravenclaws did it too.

Anyway, great essay. I especially like what you have to say about the Blacks. One of the reasons I hope R.A.B. is Regulus is because it makes the story of that family all the more interesting and tragic. Both brothers working for the same cause yet they each thought the other was working against them. Hmm, Sirius knew Regulus was a DE but did Regulus know Sirius worked for the Order?

[identity profile] pegkerr.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I have a theory, by the way, that Percy is indirectly a Jane Austen allusion (Jane Austen, Rowling has said, is her favorite author, and we see she has worked other references in, e.g., Mrs. Norris). I believe she modeled him on Mr. Collins in Pride and Prejudice. Certainly Percy's pompousness is an object of ridicule to his family, just as Mr. Collins' is with the Bennett family. Compare Percy's letter in Order of the Phoenix, suggesting to Ron that he should cast Harry off as a friend to Mr. Collins' letter to Mr. Bennett when Lydia runs away with Wickham.

[identity profile] fungus-files.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:39 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for this. Enjoyed reading it. I was particularly interested in what you said about the Crouch family and how Percy was drawn to Barty Snr as a role-model. I always thought Percy felt his father's 'hypocrisy' of bending the rules and hoarding (enchanted) Muggle artifacts more than any of the others. It works well that Percy'd find Barty's black/white principles refreshing and even inspirational, especially when compared to the often chaotic nature of his own family. I've often wondered about the nature of Percy's ambition - what exactly was he hoping to achieve? A name for himself that countered what he perceived as Arthur's embarrassing legacy? Was he more interested in the power-plays or the attention? I like finding fic that sports Percy's POV because he seems a much more intriguing figure precisely because he rejected/was rejected from what's often designated as the 'good' family in HP.

[identity profile] fungus-files.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:43 pm (UTC)(link)
I really like that theory, and could fairly easily see Barty Snr as a Lady Catherine figure as well. I guess one of the main points of difference, which would take the characters in different developmental tangents is that Mr Collins seems quite oblivious to the Bennetts' ridicule whereas Percy is, if anything, hyper-aware of his 'outsider' status in his own family?
ext_6866: (Hmmmm..)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)
That's really interesting about Harry/Cedric--and it makes sense to me. There is some of that in Cedric, the way his father seems to be far more into his successes than he is, and tends to exaggerate them where Cedric doesn't.

I like that about the Weasleys too. I think we lose a lot when people want to basically take a certain idea *about* the Weasleys and make it the truth. It seems like Percy's unforgivable sin was stating the obvious about their financial situation--and in a lot of families that just wouldn't be an issue, but it seems like there's a lot of pressure there to buy into a single idea of how they've come to be the way they are, so it's taboo to suggest something else. I think it's almost that this same idea, that they're a big happy family, is what makes them put pressure on themselves. Like maybe they identify with their family so much the family just becomes really stressful.
ext_6866: (I've been thinking.)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:51 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought of exactly that when I read that line again--wait, how do you get 12 OWLS again? It's kind of neat to think of other kids doing it and sticking with it.

Hmm, Sirius knew Regulus was a DE but did Regulus know Sirius worked for the Order?

I don't know...but then, even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.

ext_6866: (Magpies in the library)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:54 pm (UTC)(link)
Hee--I'm re-reading P&P at the moment so that analogy is especially good for me right now. (Haven't gotten to the letter, but now I'll be thinking of it when I get to it.) Oh my, that really is Percy all over, isn't it! And yet I would say that Percy also has those hints underneath of something else. I can't imagine Mr. Collins ever dashing in to do something brave as Percy sometimes does, and he's telling Ron to throw off Harry, who in his eyes probably isn't on the same level as a brother at all.
ext_6866: (Don't know yet)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I can't help but be sympathetic to Percy on that account. I don't have his need for everything to be black and white, but he seems to try so hard to be good and see the reason behind rules, and his father's casual breaking of them and writing them to suit his purposes really does put Percy in a bad position. I can't respect Arthur as a Ministry official, and I can see why Percy doesn't.

Yet you're right--what is it that Percy wants? We keep hearing about his ambition, but what drives him, exactly? Has he become important in the Ministry? Because he doesn't have the charisma to be a real leader, it doesn't seem to me. He seems to really like doing work, even grunt work nobody else wants to do, and he likes it so much it bores other people.

[identity profile] luleh.livejournal.com 2005-12-16 11:57 pm (UTC)(link)
Thinking too much about time travel makes my head hurt but someone who's good at that sort of thing could have a lot of fun with a fic, I think.

even if he did there might have been a lot of reasons he wouldn't think he could go to him or maybe didn't want to go to him.

Very true. And that has the potential to make their story all more interesting to me. Sort of similar to how Snape (if one thinks he is not working for Voldemort) could not get over his hatred of Harry when trying to teach him occlumency. (Oculumency? I can never spell that word.)
ext_2023: (black love by wildmusing f. artdungeon)

[identity profile] etrangere.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 12:26 am (UTC)(link)
Wow, amazing essay looking at all the families.

I as well really like JKR's handling of families. Love and hurting each others, isn't it what it's always about ?

I really like your drawing the connection between Crouch and Percy, that does make perfect sense. I adore Percy, I always felt bad for him, and things have been going from bad to worse for him.

Sirius and Regulus is always one of my favourite tragedy. I agree with you, I can't picture Sirius not being the favourite one, even while being the one everyone yelled at. I think it goes on par with Sirius' personnality. I can't imagine Regulus not thinking he's always second rate to Sirius.

I do wonder what kind of relationship Petunia and Lily had. Can't have been easy.

Then there's the one you didn't mention, Bellatrix and Narcissa... I see love as well as defience there as well. Bella might be the fanatic cruel DE she is, but she's still going with her sister, complaining all the way, and helping her as she secures Snape's help.

Given that Aberforth is first mentionned as someone who's a shameful family relationship (even in a jocking Dumbledore's fashion) i bet there's a measure of defiance there, as well, yes.

(and yayfor being able to use my icon spot on ♥)
ext_6866: (Sigh.  Monet.)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 12:41 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah-I forgot to mention Bella and Cissy, but I loved that scene. Bella's as crazy as ever, but you can see she still has this relationship with her sister. It almost makes it all the more weird because it's kind of, err, normal. To a point--I mean, she's a little too willing to sacrifice her sister's kid to Voldemort, but then, that in itself could be a strange and wonderful story as well. If Bellatrix has been teaching Draco Occlumency and thinking that here she's got the son she never had. Weird.

Sirius and Regulus is always one of my favourite tragedy. I agree with you, I can't picture Sirius not being the favourite one, even while being the one everyone yelled at. I think it goes on par with Sirius' personnality. I can't imagine Regulus not thinking he's always second rate to Sirius.

I can't help but see it that way, with a kind of East of Eden idea. Sometimes the one criticized all the time really is the one who's the favorite. Regulus isn't even mentioned until book 5, and then it's to be dismissed. Nobody seems to think much of him. I always imagine that the best thing he did at home was just to not cause trouble. He defined himself against Sirius, being the one who wasn't the bad one, but I just feel like he was always aware that Sirius was more loved. Actually, I think there's sometimes some of that going on with Percy as well. He's trying to be the good one, but he may feel like he's the least valued all the time, no matter how many times Molly uses him as an example for the Twins.

I love that icon!

[identity profile] black-dog.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 12:51 am (UTC)(link)
They fuck you up, your mum and dad!

I think you're dead right -- there are no genuinely happy families in the Potterverse. And maybe the most puzzling thing about that is how it squares with the "love" theme. Why does JKR go on and on about Lily's love, when she's also so busy subverting Harry's initial idolization of his parents and his infatuation with the smothering love of Molly Weasley? Why is the sacrifice of Barty's mother one of the most genuinely tragic stories in the book, when the male Crouches themselves are so worthless and unworthy of it? What's the point of love when it creates family relationships that turn poisonous, or smothering, or into a mockery?

It's possible to read this as deliberate sentimentality -- families are a mess, but at least people are trying to show love. Or, just the opposite, to read it as deliberate irony -- for all the hype it gets, love is a pretty futile thing. Or else again, as a clear-eyed meditation on the contradictions of the world -- people do fall in love, and do, also, consistently mess up the people they are closest to, and both things are just part of the way things are.

I can't decide which of these JKR may intend. I'd like to believe she's just taking an honest measure of human nature, in all its messy contradiction, but she really does seem to privilege love: Harry's capacity for it as well as Lily's sacrifice. And she really does seem to have a soft spot for the Weasleys, despite the mercilessness of some of ther characterizations.

Bad faith on the author's part? Or is there a better explanation?

[identity profile] spoke.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 01:56 am (UTC)(link)
So much here that is obvious, yet I didn't think about it before. Especially with the Crouchs (es?) and the Blacks. Sirius makes so much sense as a favorite.

(And you might be able to tell from this that Neville is a favorite)

People cheer when McGonagall tells Neville his grandmother should learn to be proud of the grandson she's got instead of the one she wishes she had, but jeez, to me that line is frankly humiliating! Would you want some teacher to tell you your grandmother is disappointed in you? Not that Neville doesn't know that already.

One thing I've had to backtrack to stick in here - it needs to be taken into account that McGonagall is the Head of House. She is supposed to take more interest in her own students, and be able to sympathize with them more easily than she would a student from another House. Not that any of the Heads should ignore students not of thier own House, but - try to picture Snape helping a Gryffindor with a crisis. Um. I just scared myself. XD

That said:

I think part of the reason people react that way is just because Neville does know, and it's... he can't get around that to become his own person as long as Gran is this un-critizable figurehead. (Like Arthur!) All the interaction we see between McGonagall and Neville goes along the lines of Neville wilting or being depressed, and McGonagall trying to comfort him or prop him up, in her own hard-edged way. All we hear from her, to Neville, is "You can do. You are good enough." etc

The problem is, the whole time McGongall is taking the wrong tack - she thinks he needs to be told he's good at what he does do, but that's not the problem. He knows where he's good, he just doesn't want to be good there, he wants to please Gran. So when she says that line, the reaction isn't 'oh noes she has embarassed him!' but 'WOOT! Finally, someone has told the boy he doesn't have to be what Gran wants!'

I've got to wonder if he's ever heard this from other members of the family - the impression I get from McGonagall and Gran is of two very, very strong willed and intimidating, matriachal figures. It'd be kind of hard to stand up to a woman like that, which is maybe why that line had to come from McGonagall.

And now I totally want to see those two throwing down. Because I am nuts like that. XD

[identity profile] luleh.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 02:10 am (UTC)(link)
I also wanted to agree with this: (Personally, I can't help but always picture Sirius as actually being the favorite despite being the black sheep, but that's a different essay.) for the simple reason of Sirius being the "lord" for want of a better term of Grimmauld Place. We know he was because Kreacher had to obey him. And we also know the Wizarding World has some sort of estate system because Sirius then leaves everything to Harry.

So if Sirius was truly the family outcast, why wasn't he disinherited?
ext_6866: (Hadn't thought of that)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 02:10 am (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah--that's totally how I read that line of McGonagall's. It just surprises me because that's really a huge thing she throws out there casually, you know? Because just as you said, Neville *has* always been trying to be what his gran wanted. It's such a huge thing, but it's never really said. Another kid might have been totally freaked out--or defensive!

McGonagall vs. Mrs. Longbottom. That would be tough. But then, I think McGonagall is like her in a lot of ways as well. I think Gran, too, takes that sort of "buck up, stiff upper lip" attitude in sometimes the wrong way for Neville. I wonder if Snape is kind of the dark side of that, in his way.

[identity profile] winningstreak.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
I'd always thought that Hermione Granger's family was the most stable- even though not much was disclosed about them except that her parents are dentists. Although I found it odd that Hermione wasn't mentioned to ever write letters to her parents like Ron ...did....didn't he...? Or maybe it was mentioned, and I should just go reread the series again.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 02:47 am (UTC)(link)
To a point--I mean, she's a little too willing to sacrifice her sister's kid to Voldemort, but then, that in itself could be a strange and wonderful story as well. If Bellatrix has been teaching Draco Occlumency and thinking that here she's got the son she never had. Weird.

I read an essay the other day that made an interesting point on this aspect of Spinner's End:

When Bella was sent to Azkaban, Draco was 1. And she probably only saw him shortly after his birth before being swept up in that reign of terror Voldemort and the DEs went on in the year before the Potters' deaths. So Draco is, for all intents and purposes, a stranger to Bellatrix at the point of Spinner's End. But then we're told she spent the summer teaching him Occlumency, which, if the Snape-Harry lessons in OotP are any indication, are something of a bonding experience (assuming the two people can actually work together, which Snape and Harry couldn't but Bella and Draco could since Draco actually *learned the skill*). It would be interesting to see Spinner's End set at the *end* of that summer; I suspect that, devotion to the Dark Lord or not, Bellatrix wouldn't have been nearly as blithe about sacrificing her sister's kid to him. Because at that point, he's not just her sister's kid any more. He's become *her* nephew. I mean, Bella obviously cares for/connects with Narcissa; I find it hard to believe she wouldn't come to eventually do the same on some level for the child who's an extension of the sister she obviously loves and, necessarily (by being her sister's child), something of an extension of herself as well.

[identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
I'd always thought that Hermione Granger's family was the most stable

But are they really? As the books go on, Hermione increasingly distances herself from her parents, to the point where she doesn't even spend summers with them as of GoF-HBP. And is it in GoF or OotP where she starts out spending the winter holidays with them but then basically flees back to the Weasleys?

Hermione comes across to me as someone who's been so assimilated into WW culture that she's almost completely repudiated her Muggle heritage at every turn, to the point where she's spending pretty much the *entire* year away from her parents/the Muggle world. And I can't help thinking that she wouldn't be so insistent on that if everything was stable and satisfying at/in her actual home.
ext_6866: (Sigh.  Monet.)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:03 am (UTC)(link)
I admit I find the Grangers the saddest of all. It's in OotP where her parents have planned a ski vacation and at the last minute she tells them she's staying at school (really she's going to Grimmauld Place). When she tells Harry about it it seems pretty clear that she just sent off this letter and left and underneath knows she's done something mean. She's briskly saying how they'll get over it, and apparently she guilted them in the letter by telling them that all the kids who care about school are staying to study.

Somebody once wrote a sad little drabble about her parents all ready to go and then getting a letter saying she's not coming.

I mean, my parents--most peoples' parents--would respond to that by informing Hermione that she was going skiing and would show up at the school to get her. The Grangers have no authority over her.
ext_6866: (I'm looking at you)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:06 am (UTC)(link)
I wondered if he was an extension of herself already. I just go the feeling when she talked about how Draco was proud to take the job and all that she liked to think of Draco as being the family member who understood like she did. Just imagine how they might have seemed to fulfill each other's dreams--he's a young man all wanting to prove himself, and she's a real DE finally willing to take him seriously and offer him a chance. I can also imagine Narcissa getting more and more nervous about that, with Draco now having sort of two mothers to choose from.
ext_6866: (Hmmmm..)

[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:16 am (UTC)(link)
I honestly do not know what she means! Because if I were going to pick the thing that seems lost, it's the love part, not the people hurting each other part. It's easy to see how JKR sees people interacting with each other (often badly), but it's hard to imagine exactly how she pictures the idea of love *except* as a big dramatic sacrifice. And yet that seems to lead to ruin at times too, like with Sirius.

Can Harry ever show that impressive a capacity for love? Because that would seem to suggest he would be able to find love for Snape, Voldemort and Draco--people like that. Or else all he'll have to do there is forgive them and it will be his great love for his loved ones which isn't really that impressive of a thing. Most people in canon do that. Draco seems to have plenty of capacity to love his loved ones. What's special about Harry?

I wonder if it's tied to the Slytherin "problem" being that they choose to save their skins, as contrasted to the Gryffindor recklessness in running in to sacrifice themselves. I hope that's not supposed to be the big thing there, because I don't really think that's love and I'd hate to think that that kind of thing will be that important, especially since it seems like Slytherins are quite capable of love and sometimes effect me more than the good guys on that score.

[identity profile] likethemodel.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:20 am (UTC)(link)
Sirius probably couldn't be disinherited. Like old British entailment stuff, primogeniture. Eldest male, and if no males - eldest surviving relative.

[identity profile] luleh.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:22 am (UTC)(link)
But if that's the case, how was Sirius able to leave Grimmauld Place to Harry when Bella was the eldest surviving relative?

[identity profile] likethemodel.livejournal.com 2005-12-17 03:34 am (UTC)(link)
Maybe Sirius claimed Harry as his heir, his adopted son.

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