sistermagpie (
sistermagpie) wrote2007-07-01 10:55 pm
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
WTF Tonks?
So mere weeks before the release of DH I somehow have something to say about a storyline in HBP. It's two years late, but I need to pick every bone. I was reading stuff today about strong and weak characters, some of which I disagreed with, and unsurprisingly the Tonks storyline came up. I'm not really taking a position here on whether the story was good or bad for whatever reasons, but what I do think was that
Tonks storyline was useful for several reasons in terms of what JKR needed in the plot:
These last two I think are cool, because they get into Rowling's mysteries (link to a past post that can be skipped), and also a paper I loved at Phoenix Rising about how Rowling uses repetition. Whenever there's a revelation in the books, the elements of it are probably going to have been presented to us already in some other way. In Tonks' case it gives JKR a way to show two things that will be important in other storylines:
Anyway, that's my defense of the Tonks storyline, or at least what I think it's doing there. It's kind of reflecting a lot of minor issues about other storylines, and presenting certain technical things that are important elsewhere.
Tonks storyline was useful for several reasons in terms of what JKR needed in the plot:
It gives Lupin, the last Marauder, a happy ending, which JKR may have wanted to do for its own sake. It gives her another way to keep Sirius talked about through Hermione's false conclusion that Tonks was in love with Sirius. Any way to get Sirius in is good, imo, because I think he'll be coming up again in DH. What it adds to the Fleur vs. The Weasleys storyline. It gives JKR a way to show that the female Weasleys feel about Fleur is obvious. Fleur's negativity is clear in her comments about the radio and the house, but the fact that it's so believable and acceptable that Mrs. Weasley might be trying to set Lupin up with another woman sets up Fleur's anger in the end because although we might have cheered them on (or not) we have seen the Weasleys being unwelcoming and obvious they don't want her in the family. When Fleur accuses them of "'oping" the engagement will end now that Bill is injured, it can't be denied, because they've been 'oping so much it seemed believable that Molly was actively trying to break them up.
These last two I think are cool, because they get into Rowling's mysteries (link to a past post that can be skipped), and also a paper I loved at Phoenix Rising about how Rowling uses repetition. Whenever there's a revelation in the books, the elements of it are probably going to have been presented to us already in some other way. In Tonks' case it gives JKR a way to show two things that will be important in other storylines:
It shows someone losing their powers due to stress. Yeah, it could be unfortunate they're both women and it's for love, but love is after all a big theme in HBP. And Rowling has to some way show the possibility of someone losing their powers. Being a Metamophagus, Tonks is a good candidate for this, because she's the only witch who walks around with a sign of her powers that people can see all the time. When her hair goes mousy when she's usually kept it pink, it's like Harry can see her "power" light isn't on. (At the same time, she does retain her basic magic power, so it's not like she becomes useless. She just telegraphs that powers can be lost this way. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the whole reason for giving her the power. At the same time, Tonks is not losing her powers over lost love. She's lost her powers because she's worried she *will* lose someone she loves. And that's the other storyline she's illuminating, which is the Draco one. When I first read HBP for a while I wondered if Voldemort hadn't put some sort of wasting-away curse on the Black family. Turns out it wasn't genetic, except that Tonks had inherited the Black gene for suffering operatically. Harry does specifically connect Tonks and Draco the second time he notices Draco's physical decline, saying he's lost weight "like Tonks." Ultimately they are deteriorating for the same reason, worry that they will lose their loved ones. (Though of course Draco's also worried about himself, and got other issues.)
Anyway, that's my defense of the Tonks storyline, or at least what I think it's doing there. It's kind of reflecting a lot of minor issues about other storylines, and presenting certain technical things that are important elsewhere.
no subject
Yes! I haven't paid attention to this before, but may be the comparison was supposed to be a hint what Draco is afraid of before the scenes on the Tower and in the bathroom.
no subject
no subject
I agree with this 100%. It's just that I see it reflecting other issues and presenting a different set of technical issues.
Because to me it was also clear that this storyline is still a mystery and hasn't been resolved yet (loved that old post you linked to, btw). And that Tonks is under Imperius. Or a love potion. Or being blackmailed in order to protect her other family members.
Or something else. I can't figure out exactly what it is -- I think that's one of the mysteries that will be cleared up in DH -- but I will eat my hat if it was really just her pining for Lupin. The law of narrative conservation would suggest that Tonks is a metamorphagus for a reason. And a member of the Black family for a reason. And that we got all the info at the start of HBP about recognizing victims of Imperius for a reason.
AND THE REASON IS TONKS! (Funnily enough, pre-HBP Amalin wrote a fic that anticipated a lot of this.)
So perhaps the reason Tonks and Draco both look wasted is probably because at various points Tonks was metamorphaging into Draco. Hence all the scenes where their paths overlap. (Also: remember how Draco mentions Greyback to Borgin in order to threaten him? And then how Tonks' Patronus turned into a wolf?) I can't figure out the whole story yet but clearly there is something there. Didn't JKR herself say that the Tonks storyline was a red herring? The question is just what it was a red herring for, I think.
Anyway, I have a post of DH predictions (HARRY IS A HORCRUX! DUDLEY IS MAGICAL! etc.) that I will put up at some point, and TONKS WASN'T REALLY AFTER LUPIN is definitely one of them. Probably the Death Eaters see Lupin as a weak link (which, let's be honest, he is: remember that his Marauder buddies thought the exact same thing), and so he is useful for that reason. I dunno. All I know that the truth is not what we see!
*insert raving conspiracy theories and much mouth-frothing here*
no subject
I mean, let's trot out some cliches here: she's a spunky, spirited, lively and mischievous attractive woman. He's a gentle, unassuming, soft-spoken yet firm man, sort of a Giles type (*groans at self*). He's bookish yet subtly tormented, she's enthusiastic and around him long enough at Grimmauld to 'get to know' him a little bit in snatches, to see a little past his shabby surface to the sparkling depths beneath. Or something. It's like... oh god almighty, it's like Jane Eyre. -.-
That said, I HATE Remus/Tonks. I mean. I hate it. I can just see what JKR was thinking, is all. ^^; She writes pretty cliche romance (H/G, J/L, R/Hr-- it all fits a pattern), and R/T fits that pattern of opposites attracting to a T. It's like... I want to let you down gently, or something. I'll eat MY hat if Harry & Ginny, Ron & Hermione, and Remus & Tonks aren't all together and alive at the end of book 7, and oh btw with babies coming in the epilogue. It's just. Plot, I'm sure to be surprised by. But JKR's characterization is gloomily consistent, once you get into her framework. Many people think they see her framework (with regards to Draco, say) when they don't, but it's all a question of not projecting and just picking up on little cues. That said, I have NO IDEA what the cues say about Draco overall, aside from him being important to put all the Hogwarts Houses in harmony again, to make Harry reconsider Slytherins and to provide a connection to Purebloods and the Blacks all in one go (among other things), so whatever happens will probably serve those purposes (meaning, he too is unlikely to die, and will probably marry Pansy, since she has no other obvious purpose and the hair-stroking on the train was so typical of JKR's style of giving 'clues' to romances).
So basically, unlikely as it is, Dudley may very well be magical-- because it's a plot point, not a characterization point. And Harry may be a horcrux, though JKR said the Sorting Hat isn't one 'cause they are never that obvious & public, and Harry is quite public, haha-- but he may be. It's just that I agree with Sister M in that Tonks really is there as a consolation prize for Remus. Who therefore won't die. Well, it would just be too cruel to kill Remus, too, and he needs -something- no that Sirius is gone and he's even shabbier, haha. And who better than Ms Joie-de-vivre herself, etc. ^^;
LET ME TELL YOU HOW IT IS BEBEH
hehe :D
PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: PS:
Re: hehe :D
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
Re: LET ME TELL YOU HOW IT IS BEBEH
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
Uh, right, so, after spending all that time defending the legitimacy of Tonks/Remus down below, I actually have to say, I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't some sort of conspiracy behind it either, simply for that reason above (what!? You can totally defend both positions). Tonk's ability to shape-shift hasn't really been used yet, and JKR has connected her to probably the most important family in the series and done nothing with her, really, or with that connection. Except in the emotional way and the paralleling Draco way, which really could be reasons in themselves. But there's so much polyjuicing and shape-shifting going on in HBP that's relevant to the plot, it's hard to imagine that Tonk's ability to shape-shift would be completely left out. I don't know whether I believe she took Draco's place for the year because then the whole redemptive story arc becomes pointless and I think it's important to JKR. But I wouldn't be surprised if there was something else boiling underneath the surface, and I do sort of buy the idea that Draco might have polyjuiced into her at points. Either way, I guess we'll see in a few weeks.
(no subject)
no subject
And now I wake up to the gift of you and Lunacy going at it--I love you guys!!
I'm all for getting more stuff from this storyline. In fact, if I was doing a sort of overview of the series I think it'd be fascinating to look at the pet theories (whether or not they come true) from each book, because HBP is just full of theories about people being who they're not--especially Tonks. And I don't think that's just projecting. People are reacting to stuff in the book.
JKR did say Tonks/Lupin was a red-herring---I assumed she meant the storyline was a red-herring but that Tonks/Lupin was the real solution. But hey, we've got a book to go yet!
(no subject)
no subject
I admit I'm being selfish, because the idea of Tonks and Draco interacting has always attracted me. Also that theory below about Slytherin/Black passion fits. Uh, though I like Tonks/Remus so if your theory comes up I hope there's a twist. I'm not fond of Remus either, but I'm into so many ships where I feel meh about one of the characters. And the lack of moral-courage and apathetic wanting to be liked makes him much more interesting than the kind old teacher who just wants to be loved but is oppressed. There was this amazing post some time ago about Remus's secret brutality. Uh, now for some reason I'm in the mood to parallel Remus/Tonks and Remus/Draco. Hey, wouldn't it be great if Harry left Grimmauld Place to the two Blacks left (Tonks and Draco) and they all lived there together? *creates crazy theories*
Harry is a horcrux! I think there was a theory some time ago that allowed for him to be one and not get killed. It involved Ginny saving his ass. Dudley is probably magical, but did you read the theory that linked Snape and Petunia?
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
And in terms of the Merope Gaunt storyline, it gives it a positive spin, which I think is a good thing. Slytherins are so emotional, but every time we've actually seen them get ridiculously emotionally attached to something, it's been in a negative way (Mrs. Black's insanity over the loss of her children, Merope Gaunt's dying and using a LP, even Draco's connection to his mother caused him to attempt to hex Harry from the back), I guess to keep people thinking Slytherin's this bad house (except for Slughorn's attachment to Lily, I guess). But with Tonks and Remus, you have a Gryffindor who's hiding behind all these high moral reasons from something everyone can recognize he shouldn't be hiding from, and a "Slytherin"(sorta) who's doing the right thing by being absolutely unable to let go. It's the upside of that selfish Slytherin ambition. :)
And that reflects Harry and Ginny as well, I think, because they got together despite the fact that everything about it was completely immoral (Ginny's younger, she's his best friend's little sister, he's thinking thses lustful thoughts about her), and yet, it was a good thing they did (at least for Harry, which...well, it's JKR). But then they broke up over these moral issues. Which I guess isn't really better or worse than Tonks and Remus, but it does provide that contrast, and give you the downside of Gryffindor. I feel as though a lot of book six was about finally recognizing that Slytherin's selfish ambition really is very close to passion, and that passion is not necessarily a bad thing to have.
no subject
*facepalm*
I'm wondering why you consider Tonks a Slytherin?? haha, I was very surprised-- I simply cannot picture Slytherin!Tonks-- and indeed, lo and behold, she's quite far from it (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=117). ;) Yo, Hufflepuff represent! Tonks never seemed ambitious to me at all, unsurprisingly for a Hufflepuff I guess :> Besides, I think any House member could be 'unable to let go', just for different reasons-- just look at Harry in HBP (or Hermione in OoTP, or Sirius in PoA and beforehand, Ginny pretty much since book 1, haha-- gotta love those obsessive Gryffs), there's all the proof you need that Gryffindors aren't so good at letting go either. They just 'can't let go' of different things; Ravenclaws would be like Luna with their pet theories, Gryffindors like Harry with their quests for justice/whatever, and Hufflepuffs would probably just be hardworking and dedicated. Slytherins would probably not let go either, of things like vengeance or glory, perhaps. Ahem. ;) Just kidding, they also have problems letting go of resentments or old slights (Snape and Draco), family traumas (Voldy) and a cushy job opportunity (Slughorn, against his better judgment) :D
Also: I can't believe Ginny being a year younger than Harry at ages 16 and 15 respectively when they first kissed would raise anyone's eyebrows even in Amish-land. Perhaps especially in Amish-land. o_0 Having 'lustful thoughts' isn't abnormal or indeed 'immoral' for teenage boys, only for teenage girls-- or so say those helpful 50s instructional booklets. According to those wondrous purveyors of old-fashioned morality such as 'Ms Manners' and her ilk, boys are naturally blessed with raging hormones (awww?) and it's therefore the girl's job to fend off her amorous suitor with firm protestations and pure white gloves (or possibly a bib?) If you go in for that sort of thing, which I don't see evidence of JKR doing, what with the gleeful descriptions of wet-kissy Lavender and such :> Introducing the 'younger sister of best mate' aspect only makes Harry himself uncomfortable-- it's not a moral issue (ie, something that would make others out of sorts in any way), and Ron seems more than fine with it. The reason he's uncomfortable is plainly stated in canon to be the pure... awkwardness of telling Ron and just making the sudden transition and is played up for comic relief for several chapters in HBP.
Also, umm, from what I can remember, their breaking up had absolutely nothing to do with why they got together, so I'm rather lost. o_0 Harry very clearly said that he's breaking up with her because of the war. Here, I'll quote from my handy-dandy HBP text file! :>
'Ginny, listen ...' he said very quietly, as the buzz of conversation grew louder around them and people began to get to their feet. 'I can't be involved with you any more. We've got to stop seeing each other. We can't be together.'
She said, with an oddly twisted smile, 'It's for some stupid, noble reason, isn't it?'
'It's been like ... like something out of someone else's life, these last few weeks with you,' said Harry. 'But 1 can't ... we can't ... I've got things to do alone now.'
She did not cry, she simply looked at him,
'Voldemort uses people his enemies are close to. He's already used you as bait once, and that was just because you're my best friend's sister. Think how much danger you'll be in if we keep this up. He'll know, he'll find out. He'll try and get to me through you.'
'What if I don't care?' said Ginny fiercely.
'I care,' said Harry. 'How do you think I'd feel if this was your funeral ... and it was my fault ...'
Voila! :D Poor Harry & his 'stupid noble reasons'. Awwww. And now if you'll excuse me, I'll have to go wash the bad taste in my mouth from defending the morality of Harry/Ginny, ahahah. :>
Re: *facepalm*
Re: *facepalm*
Re: *facepalm*
Re: *facepalm*
Logn enough? Sorry about that...
Re: Logn enough? Sorry about that...
Re: Logn enough? Sorry about that...
Re: Logn enough? Sorry about that...
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
To answer lunacy a little, Gryffindors do get obsessed with things too, but Slytherin is that water house and they really do seem to do emotion in a different way when they do it--operatically, I always think. I guess the simplest way is to say water vs. fire. Tonks is probably more an earth/water combo than earth/fire. She's been tempered a bit more than the rest of her family. Sirius is maybe Fire/Water?
I feel like I'm probably just talking out of my ass with that, but it sounds good!
(no subject)
no subject
Would you email your superb paper on DM that you read at PR? It really was delightful: pir8fancier@gmail.com. And if you don't want to, cool as well
no subject
I've made a note to myself to send the paper--hopefully I'll get it out tonight!
no subject
On that I think it's more just something that's cool. But even then it was only the cool thing in OOTP. It was used for other purposes in HBP, like you say, so maybe there will be some bigger reason for her having the power in DH. It certainly seems like her ability to disguise could be a major plot point.
As far as criticism of Tonks I don't care at all about Remus/Tonks or that plot line, beyond being happy for the characters if they're happy. But Tonks, like all the prominent female characters, aside from McGonagall, seems to be criticized quite harshly in fandom by women. I know I posted on that before but it's as if women aren't happy if the female characters act in ways they themselves wouldn't. Ginny's a slut for going out with a few guys. Tonks is weak because of Remus. Molly isn't a good role-model for not choosing to have a career. Hermione acts completely OOC for dealing with Ron/Lavender badly. Cho is a bitch for going out with Harry.
All while horrible men are romanticized. There seems to be a lot of self-misogyny in this fandom.
no subject
I've always interpreted a certain amount of misogyny in the books (which I guess would automatically fall under 'self-misogyny', the author being a woman.)
Which isn't to excuse it being perpetuated in fandom, and to far greater extents at times, but fandoms aren't vaccuums.
no subject
(no subject)
no subject
(no subject)
sorry, making something clearer
Re: sorry, making something clearer
Re: sorry, making something clearer
Re: sorry, making something clearer
no subject
I mean, I hate Remus: does this mean I hate men? Or werewolves? Or people who wear ratty sweaters?
I don't like him based on his character, not on his gender. Same goes for the female characters I'm not fond of.
(no subject)
(no subject)
no subject
Plus, it introduces us to the concept of the changing patronus that I might be important in DH.
Most importantly of course it's a variation of the love theme, showing it's positive and negative effects and highlighting that a grown up like Lupin is not immune to it either.
I personally love the side effect of showing how both intuitive Harry and analytic Hermione can be off in their explanations of the world. It might all seem logical to them, but they don't have all the information. Even when they disagree, it doesn't mean that one of them has to be completely right.
That side story is far from being added randomly.
no subject
I liked Hermione's ideas too, and the fact that they were wrong. In fact, I did like that pretty much all the kids missed this storyline, I think partially because it shows they really don't get what the adults are up to a lot of the time.
(no subject)
no subject
no subject
no subject
The poor girl is a beast of burden, laden with a heavy load of exposition.
The lively, friendly Tonks with the Suish power of OotP was introduced predominately to serve as a *contrast* to the drippy, mopey one in HBP. She seems to have been given that fancy Mary-Sue power just so the author could take it away.
I had missed that it wasn't so much grief as fear that was crippling her, but boy, howdy does that ever fit. Particularly with the Dementors now a-breeding. (One suddenly wonders whether people with fancy, rare, Suish powers are particularly sensitive to the kind of Dementor-fog that was blanketing London.)
But to let us know that Tonks was a mess because of depression did soften us up nicely when we were told later that Merope did the same thing. Given the way once an element is used in this series it almost invariably gets used again, I would advise watching out for it to happen to someone in the final book as well. Probably at the worst possible time.
It would be nice if the shapeshifting ability finally served a real purpose in DHs, but I am not going to hold my breath and wait for it. I doubt that Rowling is suddenly going to toss Tonks into central plot action between now and the end of the series.
Tonks also served as another heads-up, bearing the expositionary news that somebody's Patronus can change. I'd suggest keeping an eye out for that in DHs as well.
no subject
no subject
Do you think this will be reused? Wouldn't it be amazing if Voldemort loses due to being stressed? Poor overworked Voldie.
It's really great how Tonks is in the middle of all these interesting storylines that connect a lot of stuff together. Sort of like Draco, except from the protagonists side. The parallel is really interesting. There is really the Sirius angle if you squint. Spare_change's theory aside, it's such a stretch but I would love Draco/Tonks interaction. She would smack him around and be a positive influence without being patronizing, which isn't in her character, and I think that could help bring up the best in him.
no subject
Oh, that's awesome! You're so right. And I tried to write Draco/Tonks once. Actually it ended up changing into the Sirius/Draco I'm trying to finish now. I love exploring the Black side of Draco's heritage.
Wouldn't it be amazing if Voldemort loses due to being stressed? Poor overworked Voldie.
LOL
(no subject)
no subject
no subject