Deathly Hallows

[sistermagpie]

I feel weird writing this post, because I don't really feel like posting, yet it seems like I should, and then I think--what, do you imagine the public is waiting on pins and needles for your words? Get over yourself!:-D

Anyway, I didn't much like it. Perhaps my feelings will change, but stop here if you don’t want to read any negative stuff. I don't have any rants prepared or anything or want to harsh anybody's buzz. (But misery also loves company!) I was talking to someone who's asked me what I needed from the book, what I wanted to happen or what would have made me satisfied, and the truth is, I don't have an answer. I don't have a list of prescriptive criticism, or think things were done badly, or should have been done a different way.

Well, except one little thing, which couldn't be helped. When that white doe showed up I never doubted for a second it was Snape's Lily!Patronus (cause she's a lady!James!). We'd seen Arthur's and Kingsley's Patronuses talk, and oh, how I wanted that beautiful sparkly stag to come up to Harry and tell him to get this Quest going already in Snape's sarcastic voice.

I've never loved these books the way some do--which should not be taken as a criticism of people who do. I just mean that I know there are people who re-read the books over and over as comfort, and that's not something I ever did. I didn't ever want to re-read to spend time with these people or in this world. There are other books I do feel that way about, books that other people find meh. Basically, I felt like JKR was writing a story of good and evil, and life and death, that resonated with her and satisfied her, and felt like a triumph for her--just not me. So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions. More than once I felt like I was seeing more story outline/structure than story so that it seemed very contrived (a couple of times Harry himself seemed to admit it) and made it feel like nothing was building to anything.

What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them. I don't think I was ever so off as, say, a Harmonian banking on the Hippogriff o'love or anything like that, and some things that happened I did predict (Snape/Lily, obviously, and DDM!Snape). But in general I think I was reading Rowling a bit too much like a Tolkien fan, and maybe too much as a Jungian (not that I'm any expert on Jung, but I was reading from my own idea of his stuff). And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.

Contrary to what some may have thought at times-or not-I don't hate the good guys. Still don't hate them, just still would not want to spend time with them or re-read the books to spend time with them. The characters I liked the most I think less of now or am just kind of confused by, which is unfortunate. I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy--but that wasn't the first time in the book where that kind of thing happened.

Not sure what I predict fanfic-wise. I wonder if people might not start writing some interesting stuff. I did at one point think how I wanted to take a favorite character and put him in a different story.

Oh, also I've been dreading the epilogue for years, because I've always hated epilogues. Even when I was too young to know the name for them I hated them. Some books I guess can make a case for them being appropriate. HP is really not one of them that I can see. There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children. The one good thing I read about it was after it was leaked, before I read it, and I read a comment where someone said the epilogue read like any cliché H/G fic...or any cliché post-war H/D fic.;-)

Comments

[nidoking.livejournal.com]

I think I feel the same way, or at least I'd describe it that way. I was never entirely invested in the books to the point of actual desire to read them and know what happens at any cost. I read the first few quite casually as I got them, asked what the heck was up with Quidditch, and waited for the next one to come out. With the last two, it's been a race to read them quickly so I can experience the books rather than the commentary and spoilers that inevitably follow quickly. I hate when people like something that much, because the more everyone else likes it, the less wholesome it seems to become. We were in the bookstore last night looking at all the merchandise that's sprung from the movies (I doubt anyone would have merchandised the series if it had remained exclusively in book form and JKR had refused to let anyone make a movie), and it just made me want to forget that Harry Potter had ever existed. People BUY this junk because they want to feel closer to the story... it's chess sets and fake wands! You can get that stuff, minus the Harry Potter logos all over it, for half the price.

My hype-bitterness aside, as it should be, I enjoyed the final entry in the series more than most of the others. Most of the trappings from the earlier books that I didn't like (*coughQuidditch*) were absent, there was much more excitement (even during the freakishly long soliloquy and explanation segments), and I thought the ending worked. Aside from the "hey, let's throw another dead body on the pile" syndrome, mainly felt when a certain character was carrying a certain other character's body and went back for another one, I felt everything from the earlier books came together pretty well. But I hate reading critically and just read to enjoy things, so I'm easy to please superficially. *shrug* I'm posting my own thoughts in two posts, one of which is already up.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_hannelore/]

I have to wonder if JKR's need for an epilogue was geared toward younger readers who needed some kind of Murder She Wrote exposition. I wonder if she also wanted to tie up her own little loose ends, but in the end the epilogue just made me laugh... badly.

Honestly, I was ready for Harry to die. It disappointed me to see that she sort of chickened out to those ends.

[megstuff.livejournal.com]

What it mostly made me do is go over all the ways I was reading it wrong, making my issues more central than the author really considered them

This is exactly where I am with it right now. I hope at some point I'll be able to enjoy the series for what it is, now that I *know* what it is, but the things that I really loved, that made it compelling for me, were things that I only *thought* she was writing. (Or alternatively I can find a way to privilege my own reading...I hate to just give it up when I did love it so much.)

[tsuvi.livejournal.com]

Thank you for writing this post! I was begining to feel rather alone in some of my oppinions about DH and it's epilogue, but after reading this I'm glad others have thought some of the same things.

Yonks ago, when I first started hearing about the HP series epilogue, I was seriously apprehensive about such a final ending for the series. Now, after reading the book, some of my fears have come true. I agree... Albus Severus sounds weird on so many levels. Not to mention name confusion? I could hardley keep up with all the children running aorund the final chapter.

Mostley, I was dissapiointed with the lack of moral. JKR has always tlaked about deeper meanings and morals in her books and I thought that her epilogue would be a chance for her to give her last thoughts. Instead, it was a cliched fanfiction filled with many useless facts.

There were moments in the novel as a whole I enjoyed and will remember, but I must say, the epilogue left a bad taste in my mouth.

Again, thank you for your thoughts!

[alchemia.livejournal.com]

i was confused by the christian-ism she said she had and couldn't explain becuase of the book.... I mean, I am assuming Harry = christ figure, esp with the ressurection and all, but uhm, if he was, why'd he go and cast an unforgivable?

I was expecting to think the book was crap, like I thought the last ones were, but that hey, fanfic can fix that. So I went into it expecting very little. I am anxious about what will happen with fanfic (not just because I'm still in the middle of an epic snarry).

The way she handled the WWII issues though offended me (there more in my lj if you are interested). I don't think she was deliberately putting anyone down- but she didn't do her research and came off insensitive- like having Harry Potter fly his broom around a magical version of the WTC to save everyone, or give everyone there potions so when they jump, they won't feel a dang thing (which is a normal fantasy I think for the helpless observers, but there are respectful and tasteless ways to tell such a story. When I've seen a few people write this kind of mary-sued save the day for something like WWII or the WTC attacks, I've seen people respond that tit was tasteless, and I think that's exactly what JKR did- only its buries in a larger series with a ton of hype around. I was able to excuse her diminishing the suffering of witches burned at the stake early in the series when it was aimed at young readers, but not when we get to the 'adult' version of the story- retrospectively and in this book- her attitude to historical suffering just offends me.

[seaislewitch.livejournal.com]

There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children.

LOL! Honestly, that's the least glamourous bit of life. (Take it from me!)

[rumpelgeist.livejournal.com]

Most of what I enjoyed In DH where things that would Support that which Interests me in the Fanfiction I like to read and the quantity of this did not seem enough. The rest of what I did not Like was similar to what I don't Like in the Fanfiction I do Not like to Read and there was too much of this.

[quivo.livejournal.com]

I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy

Before I start my own little whine, I'll just say a HELL YEAH to that. I saw that and was just like, what. The Christ. *sighs*

Thankfully, I had sort of washed my hands of the canon going anywhere near where I wanted it to go for a while before now, so it was more of a fun read than I'd expected. And though I'm not a rereader of these books, I'll likely be snipping a few quotes for icons and maybe rereading the last battle (did you think that was great but a little all over the place, or was it just me...? Eh). But most deeefinitely not for comfort.

As for interrogating the text, I don't think I really bothered, to be honest. But I definitely read this book in a far different state of mind than I did the last, mostly because so much has changed about how I think about stuff. And so many things jumped out at me that just read wrong- the house elf thing (on one hand, I liked Kreacher turning nice on everyone, but on the other hand, good frigging grief did I just not like how his interaction with everyone played), and the everyone-gets-married, cooks, and gets pregnant thing.

I don't know. I know I won't be recommending it, and some of the things I've thought and said about JKR feel kind of mean or mean-spirited, but still. There's just more I expect from books nowadays, and not very much was in this book.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

I feel weird writing this post, because I don't really feel like posting, yet it seems like I should, and then I think--what, do you imagine the public is waiting on pins and needles for your words?

Hee! Well, I for one was glad to see you'd posted. :)

Anyway, I didn't much like it.

I was actually bored by it. I mean, I kept waiting to get to bits that I'd enjoy and it never happened. Even the final Snape chapter was just too little, too late, if that makes sense.

So I was a bit left out of the story, objectively even seeing characters doing good, brave things, and just not sharing much in the emotions.

Yes! I really had no emotional resonance with any of the characters. Less and less as the story dragged on, until it got to the point that I was actually rooting for folks to die. Just to kind of break up the monotony.

That part where Mrs. Weasley dropped the "B" word? (capslocked, no less) I could just feel JKR over my shoulder saying "See? See? Isn't she a bad-ass?" and it was just... eye-rolling, frankly. For me, anyway.

And I think when JKR said that she was Christian and if she talked about her faith we'd know the ending, I immediately began interrogating from the *wrong* Christian perspective and got that wrong too.

I'm honestly confused about that remark of JKR's. Exactly what about her faith would have given away the ending? Even the "resurrection" wasn't one. So that part baffles me. The two story-lines that I thought might go the "Christian" route were Draco's and Snape's. And neither did, really.

Or, maybe I was looking at the wrong perspective as you said. I guess I'm just confused as to what the "right" Christian perspective is.

[onthehillside.livejournal.com]

...

Yeah.

I even read it again, carefully, just to see if I'd feel differently once I'd had a chance to read it without needing to know the ending. I didn't.

[zeroambi.livejournal.com]

*accompanies you in misery*

[serriadh.livejournal.com]

*drifting by through friendsfriends*

I know exactly what you mean about reading it as a Tolkien fan. I mean, the stories have drawn me in, and in many ways I relate more (or am more invested in) JKR's characters than Tolkiens, but I've always ached for a little more worldbuilding - she sketches the WW brilliantly, but so much of it doesn't make sense or isn;t explained. I'd like to have known how the clearup went, how the Ministry was restructured (if at all), whether lessons were learnt about non-magical creatures and muggleborns. I'm also, I must admit, profoundly upset that the only happy ever after JKR seems to envisage is married with lots of children.

I knew it would never happen, but I always had a tiny hope that the epilogue would be more like the Appendices at the end of Return of the King...

[mediumajaxwench.livejournal.com]

I figured that when she was talking about the Christian perspective she meant the idea that Voldemort fears death and that death is not something that you should fear. But there are about a million perspectives to any religion so I could also totally be wrong...

[ex-zatanna330.livejournal.com]

I just finished reading it (read it all night actually, leading to a bad case of Harry Potter Hangover when I had to go to work this morning). Most of the stuff that I liked was at the beginning, really, until Harry started getting into the Deathly Hallows thing... then I kind of kept reading because I was waiting for Draco to show up again. The saddest thing about Draco was all the potential from HBP that kind of... didn't happen (at the very least, give him his wand back, jerk!). I got my hopes up when Harry said that Draco was the Elder wand's master, but then he sprung that backwards-logic thing about him stealing Draco's wand (wtf it isn't even the same wand, Harry, what crack are you smokin'?) so those hopes were dashed. I suppose the fact that he and his parents didn't die is a good thing (also, 'Scorpius'? You are a cruel daddy, Draco).

House unity... did someone drop the ball on that one, JKR?

Ah well, there's always fanfic.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I haven't read it yet but I did read the review in the NY Times a couple of days ago, and when I heard there was an Epilogue, I thought, "Oh no she didn't!" And apparently she did! Didn't Tolkien write an Epilogue to LoTR that wisely, he chose not to publish? Smart fella, that Tolkien. I believe Rowling claims that she never read LoTR -- maybe she should have.

You and I had a conversation a little while ago about similarities between Rowling and Dickens. It totally doesn't surprise me that she concludes her epic with a round of marriages and births -- that's exactly what Dickens would have done. In Dickens, as in much Victorian literature, marriage and family is the happy ending, the reward for all of the protagonist's previous tribulations. I think it will probably be disappointing for a lot of fans, who were no doubt expecting something less prosaic, but I'm sure it seems just right to a traditionalist like Rowling.

[supacat.livejournal.com]

I really enjoyed reading your comments, especially on misreading Rowling, because--so true. I always felt with these books as though I was building narratives and readings that, five seconds later, would come crashing down and need to be rebuilt, with me constantly struggling from somewhere under the rubble.

There was no reason I could see for needing to see these people married with children.

I agree, not in a children's book, since kids who read books don't want their heros to grow up and have kids. It's always really depressing when that happens.

[valis2.livejournal.com]

I thought of you several times, but especially at the end, when Slytherin is shown to be the EBIL HOUSE ICK, and when I realized that there was no house unity coming and that Slytherins are just born bad so nyah nyah nyah. Even Snape was mis-Sorted. He should have been a Gryffindor. GRYFF RULEZ FOREVAH. *rolls eyes*

[albichorizon.livejournal.com]

Basically, I'm feeling what you're going through.

When I was reading DH it often felt contrived and the emotions never really connected with me. JKR had a lot of stuff that Harry needed to do before she could end the book and it all unfortunately had to be done by Harry & co. I just kind of trudged through all that writing so that I could get back to reading fanfic.

I found myself on several occasions comparing this to OotP. Specifically, if whoever wrote the screenplay for OotP could cut out a lot of the story and make it interesting (or so I've heard), what parts would they cut out of this book to make it move quicker?

I was disappointed by how little Snape and Draco were in the story, since I think they had a lot of potential that was built up in the previous books and not used here. My hopes were rasied (and crushed) after I read James mention that he'd leave if he was sorted into Slytherin.

Also, I'm trying forget the epilogue. There was no need for it, any reader with a spark of imagination could figure out what was going to happen. I only was comforted by the fact that Draco was not imprisoned or anything (and I completely reject that Draco's hair would recede, especially in his late thirties).

[romeoambiences.livejournal.com]

I just finished the book with my 12 year old daughter and had to see if you were as disappointed as I was.

What a letdown after the thrilling ending to HBP! This book being like the second half to book 6 my ass! It was like a totally different world or AU.

It took me until we finally got to Snape's tale to feel any excitement, but that was so very late.

None of the deaths had any sort of emotional impact on me. Many seemed to be thrown into the story as afterthoughts.

I called the doe as Snape's patronus representing Lily as well. And yes to the creepiness factor of little Albus Severus. It didn't ring true to me that Harry would name his son after Snape. *rolls eyes*

I did enjoy the background information on Dumbledore.

The business with wands trading their masters after a little thing like "expelliarmus" was utterly ridiculous to me. After awhile, you would think it would be hard to keep track of just who those tart wands were loyal to (My daughter stated this also although not quite in those terms). Was this actually planned years in advance?

And to think I actually perked up when Draco was named as the master of the elder wand. Of course, we couldn't leave it at that and Harry was master of it in the end along with everything else in the universe.

How weird it was for Draco's name to be mentioned so very often but only because Harry was playing with his wand.

The poor Slytherins. Obviously, they are bad. Not all bad according to JKR (as they can be allowed to live), but merely bad enough to be unworthy of the mighty Gryffindors.

This book was so NOT what I was expecting and/or hoping to see.

Where was the House Unity? I wish JKR had never made any comments in that regard as I feel incredibly cheated out of a storyline which seemed crucial and implied in the books leading to this one.

Big Harry/Snape emotional confrontation? Didn't happen.

Peter's silver hand used against a werewolf? Nah...that would have been too interesting an idea.

Some sort of actual resolution with Harry/Draco? bleh...of course not. The Gryffindors righteous heroes. Draco insignificant. (At least I got the Malfoys as a family who loved each other...I liked that.)

What really amazes me is how much more creative fanfiction writers have managed to be with these characters and situations. I can't believe this book is what canon has ended with. *cries*

Maybe more later. I'm tired and depressed.

[spare-change.livejournal.com]

I agree with everything you're saying here. I think in a way I feel let down because, like you, it wasn't so much that I had a specific narrative agenda (well, of course I did, but I was certainly willing/excited to be taken in a completely different direction), but that I really thought I understood the series' thematic agenda. And now that the story has been resolved, I realize -- like you said -- that some things that were important to me are not so important to her, and vice-versa.

[ananke-hime.livejournal.com]

Hello. You don't really know me, except that I once read your essay and you once read my fic, and that's never a good way to introduce self, but I was very curious about what you thought about DH, and drifted here...

I think I must agree with you, in general. And I'm curious about what you think, in turn, about this: Have you read The Little White Horse? Someone pointed me to it as one of Rowling's favourite books. At the end of it, the heroine invites everyone - everyone in the book - to a tea party. And the smallest details become important; they all join together, like puzzle pieces into one picture.

This is the impression I had after DH. I've grown to Rowling writing like this before, combining the details into a tapestry, but in this book, it was especially visible; and especially in the final battle.

But I felt that... well, to Rowling different details were important than they would have been to me. To me, things like - 1/4th of a population cannot be evil!; House reconciliation; Snape's life debt; Unforgivables are evil! - these pieces were the important ones. To her, it was that Harry's Quidditch team should be present in the final battle - I was reading the chapter, and this one inclusion just... jumped at me. WTF the Quidditch team? What are they supposed to do?! Fly around people?!

I was just gearing for different pieces of the puzzle, I think. (And I so wanted Draco to be that dragon on the cover, too, going with the Trio on the Quest as the Slytherin representative...)

And I also thought that it's odd how that first part of the story is so very adult - not that I don't have my issues with that, mostly the taking off WWII ones someone talked about above - while the last one is about the importance of children's tales, with copious references to PS/SS. I just think that this part, as a whole, was planned long ago - not only the Epilogue. And while her writing moved on, this part sort of stayed behind. It really reminds me of The Little White Horse. Snape's Patronus reminds me of it, too. (And, to me, as a Snape fan, Prince's Tale was just... atrocious. I knew that, the way his tale went, he was slated to die. But the melodrama of the process, I could have done without.)

Then, obviously, I wrote a scene which, although it doesn't right all my personal grievances, goes a long way towards doing so. It's 200 words long, and it's fairy tale-ish, too... but it's a fairy tale from *my* world. There is House reconciliation included, sort of. It's on my LJ, if you want to have a look at it...

...but, mostly, I'm just curious what you think. If you read that Little White Horse book.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy

It was just so hilarious to me. The epilogue is the first thing I read, and my response to the "Albus Severus" bit was a very flippant "lol Snape you're dead to me." Not because it's a weird name or because I had predicted ESE Snape, but that little thing managed to turn him in my least favourite literary archetype. I've not changed my mind since having the backstory. It's not like I hate him or anything, it's just that my whole reaction to Snape seems to be lol Snape.

[(Anonymous)]

Whew. Never have so many been so fussed about such a lot of nothing. The characters, that is; the fans seem pretty numb. I'm not even upset, I'm just sort of stunned that the soap bubble didn't even contain any soap. I'm also perversely impressed by the amount of crushed expectations all across the fannish spectrum. No House unity, but the bad guys got off lightly (too lame to be a threat, I guess). Snape was neither good nor evil, simply pathetic. R/S is sunk but R/T made them both miserable until they ded from emo. Far from being the bad apple Draco was the only (almost) redeemable Slytherin student. Ginny didn't get to kick ass and take names. Neville didn't kill Bellatrix. One twin died. Hagrid lived. Multicolored werewolf cubs are canon. There's something to disappoint absolutely everyone here.

As to the epilogue, I agree with the poster who brought up Dickens. "This is the type of the Victorian happy ending—a vision of a huge, loving family of three or four generations, all crammed together in the same house and constantly multiplying, like a bed of oysters. What is striking about it is the utterly soft, sheltered, effortless life that it implies", as George Orwell wrote in his Dickens essay. It's instantly convincing that with Voldemort gone, the heroes settle into the Stepford complacency that in retrospect was always lurking around the corner. I did like Draco's nod (despite the continuing Slytherin-bashing -- and the hair, wtf was that?) and it was interesting that he gave his son a Black name and what the heck, ASS 4EVA.

PS on Snape: I think there were hints that he changed for the better over time. Except it wasn't believable since he never lost his Lily fixation which, to me, was part of the problem, because it a) kept him stuck in the past and b) didn't prevent him from being a committed DE, ergo it was not a force for good.

-L

[selene-13.livejournal.com]

I really wasn't expecting anything good out of this book (except a huge, big letdown) so maybe that's why I wasn't too disappointed. I totally agree with you on the epilogue though. I really, seriously could have done without that. I could figure out myself that JKR wanted this to be the future, based simply on the canon that went before. I wish she hadn't been so selfish with it, and left it open so I could imagine my own preferred future. The story is over, it has an end, and I would have liked to imagine a future free and open to them, just for my own, personal enjoyement to fill in. This story should be about fantasy and imagination, right? Why does the future need to be set in stone?

I don't want to know that H/G and R/Hr all got married young and started breeding in their mid-twenties. I'm 27 myself, and none of my friends are married with babies yet. Most of us are still fresh out of university/school and starting to make careers, moving in together or singling it, and just making a living. I personally don't want the whole marriage/babies thing for a long time yet if ever. Why do these JKR characters have to be so old-fashioned? Just let us decide for ourselves if we want to project these sort of future's on these characters. The story is done. Leave the future be.

I really hate epilogues.

[kerosinkanister.livejournal.com]

Interesting thoughts, as always.

The characters I liked the most I think less of now or am just kind of confused by, which is unfortunate. I find Harry affectionately naming his child Albus Severus downright creepy--but that wasn't the first time in the book where that kind of thing happened.

I'm curious, if you're interested, what were some of the other things you thought were creepy?