Haha yeah. I find it pretty amusing to see you sort-of-defending H/G, and me in a position of sort-of-accepting Z/M :D I didn't really ever think Zuko/Mai was 'problematic' so much as it left me cold... or at least cool. I know myself well enough to separate the feeling from 'omg! they shouldn't have written it!', heh. In Zuko/Mai's favor, it was more subtle/'realistic' (more of a teenage relationship) than H/G, and less anvily. Really, the only valid argument against a canon ship (and specifically H/G) is that it's badly written. Stuff like 'they're not suited' is beside the point, 'cause being suited doesn't guarantee or rule attraction and relationships, haha, and really, what's 'suited' is pretty subjective & depends on your value system and on the characters specific circumstances at that time in their life (vs another).
Sometimes people project a little too much. Hm. Like, for instance, we know Harry thought Ginny's smell = happiness, and we know he married her happily, but this doesn't in itself prove the relationship was meant to be written as Grand Romance and Everlasting Love; even R/Hr wasn't written that way. Only James/Lily really was (I think), and that sort of off-stage and by implication. I don't see the implication with H/G, really; whether I choose not to see it or not, I don't know, but while the text is anvily in regards to H/G being 'right', it's not the same as saying they're Omg Epic True Love or whatever. I still don't know if Zuko/Mai is Omg Epic True Love, but I suspect the anvils can't be that bad in Avatar; as is, it's not such a huge leap given Mai's crush as a back-story. Probably the biggest problem people have is thinking too much of Zuko (like, he's too good for her and/or needs a different type of girl), just as people think too little of Ginny (and think naturally Harry 'needs' a different type of girl... though I myself apply the argument to Harry/Luna, but at least canon backs me up, haha).
You're totally right with it often working best to work backward in terms of character to explain attraction; I do that all the time, with myself & characters (which is why I get to be a canon whore, I guess, because 'backwards' means canon). I tend to take attraction for granted and work to explain how it happened and why using a 'history of how' as its base; there's a narrative there. Usually there's several possible narratives (depends whether you still like the relationship or not; you can easily make a narrative that glorifies it or makes it a mistake, whether it was happy or broke up). Love depends on narratives a lot in general, not just in fiction, but when we're trying to discuss it. On the other hand, in terms of present feeling, it paradoxically has no narrative or rhyme or reason and 'just happens' (blink and you'll miss it). It's a funny thing, love :>
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Date: 2008-10-02 06:56 pm (UTC)Sometimes people project a little too much. Hm. Like, for instance, we know Harry thought Ginny's smell = happiness, and we know he married her happily, but this doesn't in itself prove the relationship was meant to be written as Grand Romance and Everlasting Love; even R/Hr wasn't written that way. Only James/Lily really was (I think), and that sort of off-stage and by implication. I don't see the implication with H/G, really; whether I choose not to see it or not, I don't know, but while the text is anvily in regards to H/G being 'right', it's not the same as saying they're Omg Epic True Love or whatever. I still don't know if Zuko/Mai is Omg Epic True Love, but I suspect the anvils can't be that bad in Avatar; as is, it's not such a huge leap given Mai's crush as a back-story. Probably the biggest problem people have is thinking too much of Zuko (like, he's too good for her and/or needs a different type of girl), just as people think too little of Ginny (and think naturally Harry 'needs' a different type of girl... though I myself apply the argument to Harry/Luna, but at least canon backs me up, haha).
You're totally right with it often working best to work backward in terms of character to explain attraction; I do that all the time, with myself & characters (which is why I get to be a canon whore, I guess, because 'backwards' means canon). I tend to take attraction for granted and work to explain how it happened and why using a 'history of how' as its base; there's a narrative there. Usually there's several possible narratives (depends whether you still like the relationship or not; you can easily make a narrative that glorifies it or makes it a mistake, whether it was happy or broke up). Love depends on narratives a lot in general, not just in fiction, but when we're trying to discuss it. On the other hand, in terms of present feeling, it paradoxically has no narrative or rhyme or reason and 'just happens' (blink and you'll miss it). It's a funny thing, love :>