Ahh, the change thing. You're right about people revealing vs changing in this universe, and though that doesn't always get to me, I do like a basic arc.... ugh. Well, there's Snape, haha, though that's definitely debatable.
In the end, I was just thinking I think of Snape/Lily (and Dumbledore/Grindelwald) as 'most romantic', but I didn't mention it because ummm, I don't think they're really written that way? Though what does that really mean? Do I use my definition of romance or the one used in the text, especially when H/G and S/L are like, on the opposite ends of the 'what's romantic/True Love' spectrum... buuuut at the same time, well, perhaps it's easier to fudge the edges with J/L a bit more 'cause we *see* H/G and clearly they're not epic, just some badly-written hormones and basic straightforward compatibility (plus a little obsessiveness, esp. on Ginny's part always a plus). On the other hand, what does it mean to think James' persistence in 'courting' Lily is more 'romantic' than Ginny's fixation? Ehhh, even I can't keep track of my possible narratives, hahaha. You're right in that I went a bit out of proportion and exaggerated to justify the J/L-- I mean, I don't really think it's 'epic romance', just more romantic than H/G, which doesn't take much.
The funny thing really... lafkjsflksajf the funny thing is that uhhh I believe that that's how life works, in a certain sense-- our choices do gradually show who we are, and nature influences nurture (as nurture influences nature, but less so... it's more that I think nurture defines what bits of nature are exposed and when and how), and free will exists but is exercised in a very limited fashion by the majority of people. So my main issue with JKR is that in practice, the way people act is less predictable; while in every case you can say 'you saw it coming' (people are rarely surprising in retrospect), in terms of predicting their actions, you should be surprised-- or, should I say, there's the illusion of change, which you later see fits into a pattern for that individual when you think about it; its' not that people's choices are set, it's that the motivations for their choices follow an arc that begins at the beginning and is therefore consistent, basically. The way she wrote it, it's like everything goes along according to plan-- people have... not just personalities but destinies, for lack of a better term. It's not just that Snape is flawed-- because he is, and most people in most narratives would have those flaws remain in some fashion-- it's that his actions, firstly, seem overly limited (even for his stated personality) and don't have quite the effect they could have. Same with Draco and Harry. My point is, the problem isn't so straightforward as 'people don't change', because you can have a decent (and believable) narrative where indeed people are doomed from the get-go (like say, Oedipus), but there's still a valid arc. I don't know. ^^;
As I said in the beginning, almost everything I could say about J/L is implication and therefore a lot of 'reading into things', haha, so if you confront me on that I have to fold. That said, I definitely don't see *more* True Love epicness with H/G, so I wouldn't single *them* out as 'supposed to be' either. It's just all kind of... um, blah, on the romance front, though I do still love the doomed ones. I always love the doomed ones :D
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Date: 2008-10-02 11:45 pm (UTC)In the end, I was just thinking I think of Snape/Lily (and Dumbledore/Grindelwald) as 'most romantic', but I didn't mention it because ummm, I don't think they're really written that way? Though what does that really mean? Do I use my definition of romance or the one used in the text, especially when H/G and S/L are like, on the opposite ends of the 'what's romantic/True Love' spectrum... buuuut at the same time, well, perhaps it's easier to fudge the edges with J/L a bit more 'cause we *see* H/G and clearly they're not epic, just some badly-written hormones and basic straightforward compatibility (plus a little obsessiveness, esp. on Ginny's part always a plus). On the other hand, what does it mean to think James' persistence in 'courting' Lily is more 'romantic' than Ginny's fixation? Ehhh, even I can't keep track of my possible narratives, hahaha. You're right in that I went a bit out of proportion and exaggerated to justify the J/L-- I mean, I don't really think it's 'epic romance', just more romantic than H/G, which doesn't take much.
The funny thing really... lafkjsflksajf the funny thing is that uhhh I believe that that's how life works, in a certain sense-- our choices do gradually show who we are, and nature influences nurture (as nurture influences nature, but less so... it's more that I think nurture defines what bits of nature are exposed and when and how), and free will exists but is exercised in a very limited fashion by the majority of people. So my main issue with JKR is that in practice, the way people act is less predictable; while in every case you can say 'you saw it coming' (people are rarely surprising in retrospect), in terms of predicting their actions, you should be surprised-- or, should I say, there's the illusion of change, which you later see fits into a pattern for that individual when you think about it; its' not that people's choices are set, it's that the motivations for their choices follow an arc that begins at the beginning and is therefore consistent, basically. The way she wrote it, it's like everything goes along according to plan-- people have... not just personalities but destinies, for lack of a better term. It's not just that Snape is flawed-- because he is, and most people in most narratives would have those flaws remain in some fashion-- it's that his actions, firstly, seem overly limited (even for his stated personality) and don't have quite the effect they could have. Same with Draco and Harry. My point is, the problem isn't so straightforward as 'people don't change', because you can have a decent (and believable) narrative where indeed people are doomed from the get-go (like say, Oedipus), but there's still a valid arc. I don't know. ^^;
As I said in the beginning, almost everything I could say about J/L is implication and therefore a lot of 'reading into things', haha, so if you confront me on that I have to fold. That said, I definitely don't see *more* True Love epicness with H/G, so I wouldn't single *them* out as 'supposed to be' either. It's just all kind of... um, blah, on the romance front, though I do still love the doomed ones. I always love the doomed ones :D