![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
So I watched the debate and thought many things throughout it that I've discussed elsewhere but there was one weird moment that I haven't seen brought up yet. I found myself thinking about it after the debate and this morning. It was when the candidates were asked how they felt about their running mate being president if something were to happen to him. Obviously that question was there to address the many things said about Palin.
Here's the transcript.
So he says, "I'm proud of her" and "And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family."
It's that particular use of "I'm proud of her/her and her family." It just sounds like how you talk about a child. I can understand using "proud" to talk about your running mate, but I'd expect it more as a "I'm proud to be running with her" way. It may sound like nit-picking but he said it twice the same way...it was just incredibly paternalistic-sounding. I didn't think it was an intended insult at Palin, of course. He's proud of her and her family--iow, her children. And one could maybe take it that he's saying that he's proud of all American families and this is one of them, but that still puts him in a position of responsibility *over* those families as president.
It was just a little troubling to me what that seemed to say about how he viewed her. I couldn't imagine Obama or Biden speaking that way about the other. I just...can you imagine Obama saying how proud he is of how Biden's done as a candidate? Even worse if Biden said it about Obama? Without something that put them on the same level, like "He makes me proud to be a Democrat" or some such? I'm probably not explaining it well, but that phrase and the way it was said just came across as completely but casually setting up a clear inequality between the two.
And that went along with "[Americans] know that she's a role model to women and other[s]..."
Again, that raised my hackles. You don't tell me that she's a role model to women--therefore me (in some ways she's the exact opposite). I know there's probably a very easy response to this, that he's not really saying that, he's just saying that some women, perhaps many women, look up to her as a role model. If you're a woman and running for vice president you're going to be described as a role model at some point. And I get that since Palin's main appeal is as a character--the feisty hockey straight-talking hockey mom who plays with the big boys and wins, she's a "breath of fresh air"--that's the kind of thing he's going to talk about in praising her.
But it just to me felt like it revealed the cynicism in the choice of her, like he has this vague notion of women liking Hilary Clinton because she was a woman so, you know, here's that role model that you wanted. That's part of her job as vice president. He's looking down on her with approval and pride; the man says I should look up at her for what I want to be. That's the hierarchy.
Then he rounds out the thing with the completely bizarre "Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too."
Um...so? Yeah, I know that it's not unheard of to say something about a candidate's wife with regards to his presidency. But not when you've got 90 seconds to sum up why he'd be a good president. And usually only when the wife in question is understood to be a professional of equal standing who's going to do some specific thing for the job. Otherwise she's just a gracious first lady--which can be a fine thing, but it's not really considered part of the job of president. It's hard to not get the impression that he just didn't have enough of substance to say about the woman in the short time he was given so had to start talking about other members of her family in a way that went beyond just showing how they reflect the way she would govern.
Given the history of women's rights bringing up a woman's husband in her job qualifications has a totally different weight. Men haven't historically had to fight to be taken seriously on their own. To bring up Todd Palin (heh--I always want to call him Todd Packer) in a way that implies that he's part of the deal because Sarah Palin is a family unit...it's hard for me not to see Todd as the de facto head of the family as the "tough" husband. I don't think McCain was throwing him in as a winking implication that it's really Todd who's going to be v.p. or anything, but I was sure reminded of times when that would be a given listening to this answer.
I feel like I still haven't explained this well, but that there are probably people who could zero in on exactly what I'm describing and explain it better!
ETA: THANK YOU JON STEWART: "You're proud of her? What is she, your daughter?"
Here's the transcript.
Well, Americans have gotten to know Sarah Palin (see photo). They know that she's a role model to women and other -- and reformers all over America. She's a reformer. She is -- she took on a governor who was a member of her own party when she ran for governor. When she was the head of their energy and natural resources board, she saw corruption, she resigned and said, "This can't go on."
She's given money back to the taxpayers. She's cut the size of government. She negotiated with the oil companies and faced them down, a $40 billion pipeline of natural gas that's going to relieve the energy needs of the United -- of what they call the lower 48.
She's a reformer through and through. And it's time we had that bresh of freth air (sic) -- breath of fresh air coming into our nation's capital and sweep out the old-boy network and the cronyism that's been so much a part of it that I've fought against for all these years.
She'll be my partner. She understands reform. And, by the way, she also understands special-needs families. She understands that autism is on the rise, that we've got to find out what's causing it, and we've got to reach out to these families, and help them, and give them the help they need as they raise these very special needs children.
She understands that better than almost any American that I know. I'm proud of her.
And she has ignited our party and people all over America that have never been involved in the political process. And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family.
Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too.
So he says, "I'm proud of her" and "And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family."
It's that particular use of "I'm proud of her/her and her family." It just sounds like how you talk about a child. I can understand using "proud" to talk about your running mate, but I'd expect it more as a "I'm proud to be running with her" way. It may sound like nit-picking but he said it twice the same way...it was just incredibly paternalistic-sounding. I didn't think it was an intended insult at Palin, of course. He's proud of her and her family--iow, her children. And one could maybe take it that he's saying that he's proud of all American families and this is one of them, but that still puts him in a position of responsibility *over* those families as president.
It was just a little troubling to me what that seemed to say about how he viewed her. I couldn't imagine Obama or Biden speaking that way about the other. I just...can you imagine Obama saying how proud he is of how Biden's done as a candidate? Even worse if Biden said it about Obama? Without something that put them on the same level, like "He makes me proud to be a Democrat" or some such? I'm probably not explaining it well, but that phrase and the way it was said just came across as completely but casually setting up a clear inequality between the two.
And that went along with "[Americans] know that she's a role model to women and other[s]..."
Again, that raised my hackles. You don't tell me that she's a role model to women--therefore me (in some ways she's the exact opposite). I know there's probably a very easy response to this, that he's not really saying that, he's just saying that some women, perhaps many women, look up to her as a role model. If you're a woman and running for vice president you're going to be described as a role model at some point. And I get that since Palin's main appeal is as a character--the feisty hockey straight-talking hockey mom who plays with the big boys and wins, she's a "breath of fresh air"--that's the kind of thing he's going to talk about in praising her.
But it just to me felt like it revealed the cynicism in the choice of her, like he has this vague notion of women liking Hilary Clinton because she was a woman so, you know, here's that role model that you wanted. That's part of her job as vice president. He's looking down on her with approval and pride; the man says I should look up at her for what I want to be. That's the hierarchy.
Then he rounds out the thing with the completely bizarre "Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too."
Um...so? Yeah, I know that it's not unheard of to say something about a candidate's wife with regards to his presidency. But not when you've got 90 seconds to sum up why he'd be a good president. And usually only when the wife in question is understood to be a professional of equal standing who's going to do some specific thing for the job. Otherwise she's just a gracious first lady--which can be a fine thing, but it's not really considered part of the job of president. It's hard to not get the impression that he just didn't have enough of substance to say about the woman in the short time he was given so had to start talking about other members of her family in a way that went beyond just showing how they reflect the way she would govern.
Given the history of women's rights bringing up a woman's husband in her job qualifications has a totally different weight. Men haven't historically had to fight to be taken seriously on their own. To bring up Todd Palin (heh--I always want to call him Todd Packer) in a way that implies that he's part of the deal because Sarah Palin is a family unit...it's hard for me not to see Todd as the de facto head of the family as the "tough" husband. I don't think McCain was throwing him in as a winking implication that it's really Todd who's going to be v.p. or anything, but I was sure reminded of times when that would be a given listening to this answer.
I feel like I still haven't explained this well, but that there are probably people who could zero in on exactly what I'm describing and explain it better!
ETA: THANK YOU JON STEWART: "You're proud of her? What is she, your daughter?"
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
From:
no subject
One of McCain's problems here is obvious. Palin has done absolutely nothing of substance that qualify her to become Vice President (or god forbid, President). She's barely qualified to be a governor. McCain can't talk about her record, because there is nothing there aside from a couple of glaringly bad judgment calls. Still, setting aside her lack of qualifications, there was still no justification for him to talk about her as if she were a child who'd just done something cute. "Aw, look at little Sarah. Isn't she just the cutest little maverick girl? She's married to a tough man!"
I think that when McCain wrapped up his descriptoin of her qualfications by stating that she is married to a 'tough guy,' he was revealing what he really thinks about women. Sure, they may be cute little mavericks, but what really matters is that they have a tough man around. That was bizarre and insulting.
I'll tell you what bothered me even more than this though. It was when McCain stated that he was categorically "proud of the people who come to my rallies. I am not going to stand for anybody saying that the people who come to our rallies are anything other than patriotic citizens" Yeah, he's categorically proud of the people who show up and yell "kill him" or "terrorist" about Obama. How horrifying and sad to see McCain sacrifice all of his principles --not to mention common sense and dignity -- in order to serve his ambition. If one of those lunatic fringe kooks ever actively attacks Obama, I will put the responsibility squared on McCain. He embraced the lunatic fringe and called them patriots. He should be profoundly ashamed of himself,and moderate Republicans everywhere should stop and reflect on the fact that McCain equates them with the crazy fringe.
From:
no subject
I wouldn't call "a good guy" somebody who projects his own ideas onto people and couldn't care less about women's rights (=human rights).
From:
no subject
I definitely thought the same thing about his defense of the crowd. Because he didn't even acknowledge that there were things said that were unacceptable--this while demanding that Obama repudiate what Lewis said. He must know that there is a real voice in his supporters that is blatantly racist and speaks of Obama as a terrorist. It would be one thing if he said that anybody who said those things was wrong but that they didn't make up the crowd. But going out of his way to basically turn those very supporters into victims, as if it wasn't fair to say what they said was bad? That's totally condoning it.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
Of course we could argue what constitutes a 'good' person-- ask 10 people and you'll get 10 opinions; I wouldn't casually say that if I wasn't talking to someone I thought would get would I mean (Sister M). So... um, 'good' is subjective and has different measurements. The reason I mentioned it at all is because nearly all my friends mention how they liked McCain and at one point respected him; I didn't know of him myself, so I can only go with what I've read here and there. To respond to your point about projecting/etc-- well, lots of people do that... in fact I'd say almost everyone does that to some degree. It's very rare when I meet someone who doesn't strike me that way at all; it's just that McCain is particularly obvious about it, especially in contrast to the more mild and rational Obama.
Also, as Sister M also agreed, I don't think he literally 'doesn't care' about women's health, it's that he doesn't think outside his box & doesn't realize the consequences of what he proposes in context. Note I said he 'wasn't dumb' rather than that he was actually 'quite intelligent'. :>
From:
no subject
In the debate last night Obama finally mentioned how crappy No Child Left Behind is--and got huge positive response from all the votermeters (FWIW). McCain's contribution to that discussion was to suggest that Head Start--one of the most spectacularly successful programs in this country's history--"needs reform." GOP code for "privatize it out of existence."
From:
no subject
"The dials on CNN HD were shocking and depressing. The more McCain slathered on the contempt for women’s health and rights, the more undecided women tanked for him---it might have been his lowest negatives of the night. But men were actually liking it. We were all in shock at my place to see that gender gap. Like holy shit a lot more men are still that sexist that they begrudge abortion rights kind of shock. I would have never guessed."
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
Also I predict Joe the Plumber / Sarah Palin porn. It's inevitable.
From:
no subject
As someone we know once observed: I can see the wrong sort for myself, thank you very much.
From:
no subject
Also, I was too busy googling to see if Palin has a secret autistic child stashed away somewhere. McCain sure seems to think she does!
From:
no subject
Well, Americans have gotten to know Sarah Palin. They know that she's a role model to women and other -- and reformers all over America. She's a reformer. She is -- she took on a governor who was a member of her own party when she ran for governor. When she was the head of their energy and natural resources board, she saw corruption, she resigned and said, "This can't go on."
1) Since when do women need a role model? Do men need a role model? Is McCain suggesting that he is a role model for men? For that matter, can women only have female role models?
Yes, I know that he meant to say "She's a a governor *and* a parent of a child with medical issues"; but what he did say was "This is a person women in general should pattern themselves on." It's a small insight into what I think is a generational problem: McCain can't speak to women as equals, because he doesn't understand them. Hence his hardline position on abortion despite being personally moderate on so many other hot-button social issues.
2) In a week in which her home state issued a scathing report accusing its own very popular governor of ethics violations, it is foolish to call her a reformer. Here again, the insult to our intelligence seems somehow directed to women, who are lumped into the category of People Who Will Swallow This Tripe Because We Vote for Personalities, Not Policies.
She's given money back to the taxpayers. She's cut the size of government. She negotiated with the oil companies and faced them down, a $40 billion pipeline of natural gas that's going to relieve the energy needs of the United -- of what they call the lower 48.
Actually, the high price of oil gave money back to the taxpayers of Alaska, who in fact do not pay sales tax or a heap of other taxes. Alaskans all get a dividend check each year from the state's windfall profits in oil production through the Alaska Permanent Fund (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_Fund_Dividend). Since oil spiked to $100/barrel, Palin was able to increase the dividend. As for taxpayers in "what they call the lower 48"? Alaska received more taxpayer pork per capita than any other state (http://services.alphaworks.ibm.com/manyeyes/view/SLinXQsOtha6WQKfxjkvQ2~). Why does Alaska get any money at all from us'ns in the lower 48, given that we are already paying for their windfall oil profits? (The answer is Sen. Ted Stevens (R), currently on trial for corruption.)
She's a reformer through and through. And it's time we had that breath of fresh air coming into our nation's capital and sweep out the old-boy network and the cronyism that's been so much a part of it that I've fought against for all these years. She'll be my partner. She understands reform.
A lot has been said about voters who vote on personality, which conveys perceived values, not policies and record, which convey actual values.
And she has ignited our party and people all over America that have never been involved in the political process. And I can't tell you how proud I am of her and her family.
Yep, the teenage daughter who carelessly got pregnant so her boyfriend is dropping out of high school and getting an apprentice job in the oilfields to support her. Good thing Alaska still has high-paying blue-collar jobs for an uneducated workforce (unlike the rest of the US). If this were a black family in Philadelphia, I wonder if McCain would see them as a proud role model.
Her husband's a pretty tough guy, by the way, too.
...And I'll be setting up his desk in the Oval Office as soon as they put in another phone line.
From:
no subject
So when he started looking shaky before the RNC, and Obama turned out to be the nom, rather than the more vulnerable Clinton, Palin was forced on him, and he's been stuck ever since in the position of pretending to defend her. I think he's gotten tired of it. Some of the erratic behavior is McCain himself; some is a huge tension--a war--within the GOP between his traditional conservativism and the dingbat right, which wanted Huckabee.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
I think that there are a lot of issues that McCain has flipflopped on just in this election in order to win the Republican vote. So it makes sense to me that when he defends them he's only got a one dimensional answer that doesn't take context into account, because the position he's defending isn't the one that he's actually arrived at through his own thought process. He's just spitting out the buzzwords that he knows will make the base happy. And then, of course, there are the economic issues where he's just repeating what his advisors tell him. It would be interesting to go back and look at the way he was defending stuff four years ago, and ten years ago, and see if there's more depth there.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
But yeah, it's like one of the posts on the link posted above--she's a woman. Of course she's unqualified. Why would we even discuss it?
From:
no subject
It really was hilarious the way Obama just stuck to praising Biden and didn't touch jumping on Palin. Meanwhile McCain's blithely attacking Biden as if he's not vulnerable in that area at all. But then, that's because Obama had positive things to say about Biden. McCain was pretty much empty on Palin praise after the Todd line.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
From:
no subject