That's... interesting. I would never have thought of comparing Sam and Frodo to Scully and Mulder. I'm not sure I can even pull it off now--it's been a while since I thought about X-files. But Scully and Mulder were more abrasive. She did, for the most part, follow him around, but she also constantly challenged him or at least grounded him. I never really considered whether this should be enough for her or whether she was somehow better than Mulder. It doesn't quite make sense to me. Sometimes it seems like that wasn't enough for her. (I'm remembering the episode where she got the tattoo--too long ago for episode names for me--and in that she seemed to express a dissatisfaction that was slowly ticking away in the background. Yet that wasn't the only things she felt and it looked more like any person's dissatisfaction with their life.) She had her strengths and he had his, and frequently they clashed and challenged each other.
Sam and Frodo seem different. They were almost always cooperative. Sam was understood to be Frodo's servant. And yeah, he was superSam when it came to taking care of Frodo and finding the food and tending the camp. He did put on the ring for a little while. I remember he was sort of tempted by it... had thoughts of smiting down all the orcs and finding Frodo and turning the world into a big beautiful garden. And he shrugged it off pretty easily. It wasn't for him. Partly it was his servant's mind that did it--I've no business messing in that sort of thing. But I think most of the reason why he was able to ignore it was that he didn't have it for very long. The ring seems to be something that slowly grinds away at you. (Well, if you're a hobbit and not inclined to power. Humans aren't so slow.) Frodo failed in the end because he'd become wedded to it. It destroyed him.
I'm not sure how someone could consider Sam the 'real' ringbearer--though I enjoyed how he was considered to be one of the ringbearers in the very end. To me he still was _a_ ringbearer. And in some ways, I'd agree that he was the hero of the books. Not because I'm attributing Frodo's strengths to him and ignoring them in Frodo, but because of his own strengths. Frodo got the ring there because he was determined and stubborn. He accepted the quest. Sam got him through it because he loved Frodo. That, too, is a strength. Does it make him 'better' than Frodo? Hell, I don't know. That question doesn't even make sense to me. It sure makes him better off than Frodo, though.
I think Peter Jackson would have to have Sam carry the ring for a bit. It means quite a lot and it's a huge chunk of the plotline. Otherwise he'd have to skip Frodo's near death, capture, and rescue. That's a hell of a lot of the book and it's almost the biggest emotional arc in the whole story.
I remember when I was being confused about Sam and Frodo and Frodo's eventual failure to give up the ring and Sam's love (I'm still quite confused about it, actually, and I see with the 3rd movie I'm going to sink into it all over again), I read a collection of Tolkien's letters. One lengthy one spoke of Frodo and Sam. By sheer improbability I have it with me.
Oh dear, now I have to resist typing the whole thing in. :) Let me try to sum up. Frodo did fail as a hero in a simplistic way. But to Tolkien, there was no way he could have resisted the power of the ring to the end. "I do not myself see that the breaking of his mind and will under demonic pressure after torment was any more a moral failure than the breaking of his body would have been--say, by being strangled by Gollum, or crushed by a falling rock." (Whether or not he failed as a Hero depends whatcha mean by "hero"--I could rant about that for hours.)
(oh dear.. managed to rant for too long and exceed the post limit--oh well. Continued in another one).
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Date: 2003-10-08 12:16 am (UTC)Sam and Frodo seem different. They were almost always cooperative. Sam was understood to be Frodo's servant. And yeah, he was superSam when it came to taking care of Frodo and finding the food and tending the camp. He did put on the ring for a little while. I remember he was sort of tempted by it... had thoughts of smiting down all the orcs and finding Frodo and turning the world into a big beautiful garden. And he shrugged it off pretty easily. It wasn't for him. Partly it was his servant's mind that did it--I've no business messing in that sort of thing. But I think most of the reason why he was able to ignore it was that he didn't have it for very long. The ring seems to be something that slowly grinds away at you. (Well, if you're a hobbit and not inclined to power. Humans aren't so slow.) Frodo failed in the end because he'd become wedded to it. It destroyed him.
I'm not sure how someone could consider Sam the 'real' ringbearer--though I enjoyed how he was considered to be one of the ringbearers in the very end. To me he still was _a_ ringbearer. And in some ways, I'd agree that he was the hero of the books. Not because I'm attributing Frodo's strengths to him and ignoring them in Frodo, but because of his own strengths. Frodo got the ring there because he was determined and stubborn. He accepted the quest. Sam got him through it because he loved Frodo. That, too, is a strength. Does it make him 'better' than Frodo? Hell, I don't know. That question doesn't even make sense to me. It sure makes him better off than Frodo, though.
I think Peter Jackson would have to have Sam carry the ring for a bit. It means quite a lot and it's a huge chunk of the plotline. Otherwise he'd have to skip Frodo's near death, capture, and rescue. That's a hell of a lot of the book and it's almost the biggest emotional arc in the whole story.
I remember when I was being confused about Sam and Frodo and Frodo's eventual failure to give up the ring and Sam's love (I'm still quite confused about it, actually, and I see with the 3rd movie I'm going to sink into it all over again), I read a collection of Tolkien's letters. One lengthy one spoke of Frodo and Sam. By sheer improbability I have it with me.
Oh dear, now I have to resist typing the whole thing in. :) Let me try to sum up. Frodo did fail as a hero in a simplistic way. But to Tolkien, there was no way he could have resisted the power of the ring to the end. "I do not myself see that the breaking of his mind and will under demonic pressure after torment was any more a moral failure than the breaking of his body would have been--say, by being strangled by Gollum, or crushed by a falling rock." (Whether or not he failed as a Hero depends whatcha mean by "hero"--I could rant about that for hours.)
(oh dear.. managed to rant for too long and exceed the post limit--oh well. Continued in another one).