I guess I don't really think any characters have 'secret lives' away from their creators enough so that I could really believe we're not shown it, but they want each other. Like, I could feel something there, but my perception is mine-- I see the slash but wouldn't claim it's really there because I can't claim any subtext is 'really there' without being proven right by the text. I think I'm seeing the show/source text as 'just a story' more than a real situation, I guess...? And even in RPS, it's still 'just a story' in so far as the fans don't really have access to what I'd consider 'the truth'.
The way your arguments have been phrased in this discussion, you seem to be under the impression that most slash writers share your own view of low to non-existent sexual subtext in the original, and they are therefore creating something out of nothing.
I didn't mean there was low/non-existent sexual subtext-- just low/non-existent sexual text or since actuality-- since one couldn't measure the amount of subtext, and if you wanted, you could imagine they're dying for each other even if they hated each other (...I know I have).
However, I'm not saying that they're creating something out of nothing-- to them it's not nothing. I think I'm saying the act of slashing is subjective, because after all, you can't have 'objective' fanfic or you'd have 'text'-- some sort of authority.
I don't know if I'm (trying to) make unexamined assumptions-- and my views aren't set in stone or anything. I'm pretty interested in what 'slash' entails to the point where I've been following meta discussions (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=reenka&keyword=boylove/slash+stuff&filter=all) on it for years now. So it's kind of 'what I've picked up' mixed in with my own opinion on it. I'm not trying to prove I'm right so much as question things and try to understand, I guess...? So in this way I wouldn't call anything I've said an 'argument' meant to convince ('cause in that case I'd have to do actual research, heh).
Do you really believe that if a story focuses on an m/m or f/f relationship and it's good, then it's not slash? Because that's the impression you're putting across.
Well, it's slash if said same-sex relationship (written well/IC or not) was intended to be a commentary on some pre-existing text. Then yeah, it's slash. Basically, if it's a fanfic :>
In my experience, yeah, that's the common view and the definition I generally see.
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Re: Part 1
Date: 2004-11-20 02:30 pm (UTC)The way your arguments have been phrased in this discussion, you seem to be under the impression that most slash writers share your own view of low to non-existent sexual subtext in the original, and they are therefore creating something out of nothing.
I didn't mean there was low/non-existent sexual subtext-- just low/non-existent sexual text or since actuality-- since one couldn't measure the amount of subtext, and if you wanted, you could imagine they're dying for each other even if they hated each other (...I know I have).
However, I'm not saying that they're creating something out of nothing-- to them it's not nothing. I think I'm saying the act of slashing is subjective, because after all, you can't have 'objective' fanfic or you'd have 'text'-- some sort of authority.
I don't know if I'm (trying to) make unexamined assumptions-- and my views aren't set in stone or anything. I'm pretty interested in what 'slash' entails to the point where I've been following meta discussions (http://www.livejournal.com/tools/memories.bml?user=reenka&keyword=boylove/slash+stuff&filter=all) on it for years now. So it's kind of 'what I've picked up' mixed in with my own opinion on it. I'm not trying to prove I'm right so much as question things and try to understand, I guess...? So in this way I wouldn't call anything I've said an 'argument' meant to convince ('cause in that case I'd have to do actual research, heh).
Do you really believe that if a story focuses on an m/m or f/f relationship and it's good, then it's not slash? Because that's the impression you're putting across.
Well, it's slash if said same-sex relationship (written well/IC or not) was intended to be a commentary on some pre-existing text. Then yeah, it's slash. Basically, if it's a fanfic :>
In my experience, yeah, that's the common view and the definition I generally see.