Down a Dark Hallway

[sistermagpie]

I really like this post by ajhalluk about authorial intent because it does sum up how it works, imo. This is something that's been

It's good to remember every once in a while just how much is created by an original author (and a fic author too, but even more an original author). Basically, everything is created. So every book, no matter how realistic, is going to leave out anything the author isn't interested in, and stress things the author is interested in, or believes are true. All the characters come out of one head, at base, so it's virtually impossible for a character to act in a way the author does not understand...at least not intentionally. I do, actually, believe that an author can write a character because it makes sense to him/her a certain way, and have that character make just as much sense interpreted differently by someone else. But essentially every author is trying to get across something of the way s/he understands to others by writing it, so you're going to be stuck with one person's brain throughout the story (the author's) when in real life you've got billions of brains all working at the same time. Fictional characters in the same book all have something in common, even if they are superficially different.

The first way I was thinking about this last week was in tiny gestures. The last time I read TDiR I was struck by how often characters were described as making (sorry I don't have the exact quote with me) a vague gesture beside their head to indicate they didn't know how to describe something. Like when Will feels the beginnings of the magic that will take them to The Lost Land he asks Bran, "Do you feel it? It's sort of..." and waves his hand vaguely because he doesn't have the words. I'm pretty sure Barney makes the same gesture elsewhere, and perhaps others do too.

I just thought it was odd that I can't really ever remember that gesture coming up in another piece of fiction. It's not an odd gesture--I recognized it, obviously, and I've probably made it myself in my life. It was just one of those moments where I thought hmm, isn't it interesting that when Susan Cooper "sees" her scenes happening that gesture is so natural to all her characters, whereas plenty of other authors never use it, even though they have probably seen it in life? Is it a gesture that Cooper herself makes a lot IRL? I don't know. Then I started thinking of this thing I wrote recently, which I am now doing sort of a sequel to (that's really fun so far--yay!), and I realized my characters roll their eyes a lot, and do things with their eyebrows. If I came to a spot where someone couldn't express himself, would they make the same gesture Cooper's characters do? Or would I naturally find some other way of making that clear? I'm not sure. I do think I probably tend to roll my eyes or use my eyebrows a lot, and maybe that's why my characters do too. (Hey, Bob Fosse said he started using hats because he was losing his hair and started wearing them. Once he had it on his head he naturally used it in choreography.)

Then, what ajhalluk brought up is even more interesting. She describes how LoP is full of Significant Door Moments, where important scenes take place in doorways. For me, this kind of thing just can't be coincidence--it means something, unconsciously, even though the author didn't set out with some idea about doors. That's what makes it so cool to me--it's the same way I love getting to know the kinds of symbols that show up in peoples' dreams. It's part of that unconscious author language where you naturally associate something like a doorway with a type of scene or idea.

In the thing I wrote, as I said in the comments, it's corridors. This was not something I planned at all, starting out. I just naturally "saw" that they were there leading from one place to another. One mundane reason for it, I thought, was that the characters live in a city that's based on Manhattan, and this place is full of narrow spaces and hallways. But, as ajhalluk says about her doors, there's a difference between just regular corridors that people need to get from one place to another and those important corridor moments where characters are almost always following someone or something, and which lead to some secret room or door, or something that will get them deeper into what's going on. And now I just started writing this sequel sort of thing in and the thing that starts everything off just happened--guess where? Corridor.

For some reason this just amuses me. If these were ever published somebody could totally say, "Dude, don't EVER go down a hallway in one of this chick's books. There's always trouble at the other end."

Do any of you have things like that? If so, can you think of any significance it might have for your? Corridors are sort of obvious, in a way, especially when they always lead to some sort of Knowledge.

Comments

[gramarye1971]

At one point, when I was still writing the Crossover Monstrosity, I freaked myself out when I realised that one thing many of my fanworks had in common were intense scenes that involved strangulation. And I know that that's because I have a real horror of strangulation -- I panic when anyone's hands get too close to my neck, even during something as benign as a backrub or as necessary as a doctor feeling to see if my lymph nodes are swollen when I'm sick. So it's easy for me to convey that horror very vividly, which I suppose makes for good writing.

That's really the only thing that comes to mind, in this context. *goes to poke at earlier fic in search of other possible connections*

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that's kind of cool. It's weird how your mind always naturally winds up running in the same direction it always goes in. But you've found a good use for your phobia!

[ptyx.livejournal.com]

I'm a very distracted and humble writer. I never know what I wrote, so I expect my readers to tell me :). Seriously. Usually I agree with them. When I don't, I'll tell them what I think I wrote - but I might be wrong, and maybe I'll never know.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Isn't it great when they say something that actually works and you wish you put in on purpose? I like it too when you get enough distance that you can see things in it yourself you never thought about!

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

I have three favorite settings that seem to pop up regardless and they're often where the most important emotional scenes take place - the kitchen, the bathroom and the bar.

The bathroom was especially revealing as a choice when I was writing X-Men fic about Rogue, who has lethal skin, and therefore must always be covered up, and yet she was often naked or half-naked - exposed both physically and emotionally - because I set the scenes in the bathroom, without even meaning to.

The kitchen thing is more just ... in my life, important stuff always happens in the kitchen. It's where you sit and have the important conversations - in the morning, at dinner, in the middle of the night, even at parties.

And I like bars because I like everybody to be a little drunk and open and have the edges blurred so that behavior is a little looser and more unpredictable.

Hmmm...

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ah, interesting! Even when you're thinking about houses different writers probably circle around different rooms. I tend to have a lot of studies and things--maybe because I wish I had one!

[khilari.livejournal.com]

I actually don't think I have anything like that, which may explain why my writing never goes anywhere. It tends to lack a theme and winds up sounding random even when I thought I had a plot.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

! Maybe it really is going somewhere and you just keep following the wrong parts of it? But I know how that feels...it sounded good when you started out, and when you read it over it just...is random.:-/

[bascolemeyos.livejournal.com]

Again should not be here- post-spammed ajhalluk, then came over here, as am procrastinating.

But yes, mentioned there that I used, coincidentally "corridors" as secret knowledge (let it be carnal! no it wasn't, damn).

I find that my characters are usually eating things, drinking coffee and tea, while they're talking. Probably means an oral fixation that points to projecting their problems of communication into another type of consumption, eating, leading to lots of sex, and the cycle of bad communication again. As they're not using their mouths for talking.

Or, maybe not. Maybe the writer is REALLY REALLY hungry when she's typing out her crap, and wishing she had more food than the two dozen boxes of tea in her house.

Yeah.

-
(not)FROG

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

This is the best kind of procrastination.:-)

I was about to say the knowledge in my thing is never carnal either, but once it sort of was. I had even forgotten about that corridor.

I find that my characters are usually eating things, drinking coffee and tea, while they're talking. Probably means an oral fixation that points to projecting their problems of communication into another type of consumption, eating, leading to lots of sex, and the cycle of bad communication again. As they're not using their mouths for talking.

Or, maybe not. Maybe the writer is REALLY REALLY hungry when she's typing out her crap, and wishing she had more food than the two dozen boxes of tea in her house.

Now this is literary analysis at its finest! Like I said in AJH's lj, I tend to be really focused on people taking baths, probably because I can't take a bath in my apartment so I write bath porn where people have hot baths with lots of nice-smelling bath products and toys and things to drink.

[secondsilk.livejournal.com]

Maybe the writer is REALLY REALLY hungry when she's typing out her crap, and wishing she had more food than the two dozen boxes of tea in her house.
It's called a Dischism, after Thomas M. Disch on the Turkey City Lexicon (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/turkeycity.html).
*g*

[ginzai.livejournal.com]

I think every author has themes that strick them, subconsciously or not. I actually see it more in fandom, especially where authors write for multiple genres. Someone who writes a story arc set in Harry Potter's world and then another in Middle Earth, followed by a third about Buffy or the like is bound to have common elements. You start to pick up on them, almost be able to guess when something significant is about to drop without the use of author-intended foreshadowing.

Part of it too though is how symbolically minded humans are. People always tend to see things in different lights than how they might be meant; opinions are skewed, no one can see the author's true intent. Someone reading a story might pick out a character who consistantly moves into darkened rooms as foreshadowing for that character's eventual demise, where the author had meant no such thing. We just tend to pick things like that out.

That said, I've got an uncommon affinity for writing about storms and major events that take place in storms. Added passion, I suppose, no matter how trite an idea it now is. Which is honestly strange, as much as I love storms, I have absolutely no desire to go out and play in one, nor have a fight, nor do any of the things that happen in my writings. Tea and a book, and I'm pleased as bits.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

OOh--that is such a good point. I had completely forgotten about multi-fandom people and they really do tend to stick to the same themes. Single-fandom people do too, really, but they might be harder to spot. When someone writes in different fandoms you can usually see it more easily, figuring out what they focus in on in each fandom.

Isn't it weird the way you can relate to something like storms one way in fiction and a totally different way in reality? It just goes to show how odd it is when people assume that whatever kink someone is writing about is something they support in real life. It's a totally different thing.

[the-gentleman.livejournal.com]

I think there's a definite case of symbolism if you write for a long length of time. I also suspect they're very much tied to childhood experiences- certainly my writing features overgrown alleyways and attics more than other places, because those represent things in my childhood and early teens. That, and a summer party motif. But what if somebody subconsciously views attics as a place of fear, rather than childhood sensuality, and interprets it along those lines? Certainly they're not interpreting the story as the author wants, but they open up new ways of thinking.

Of course, then you get to structuralism and post-structuralism, and you have to ask whether people think of these things due to their culture, and whether, for example, a cup represents the same thing to a 21st century neo-pagan as it does to, say, a 14th century Christian, and if so, does the 14th century writer influence the 21st century reader, or is there something behind that, something that's universal?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's the big question, isn't it? And even when you're using things that made an impression on you in childhood you wonder why you picked one thing over another.

I tend to think that the parts of symbolism that could be universal are fairly small--sometimes different cultures can have totally different associations with different symbols. But I'd hope that as a writer one could give a sense of what one's own association is. Someone else might have a different association that works too, but it might not be completely off.

It reminds me, now I think about it, about a conversation I once had with someone about the sea. She was Greek and said she thought Tolkien didn't like the sea much because of the way he seemed to use it symbolically. When she thought of the sea it just seemed completely different, because he was seeing the sea from England and she saw a different sea from Greece. The associations of the ocean are very different whether you live in California or Massachusetts because those oceans are different. The opening of the Japanese Ringu starts with a really ominous looking black sea--probably the very opposite of this person's idea.

[shaggirl.livejournal.com]

I dream of stairways a lot. I've had several dreams that made a strong impression where the home or building I was in was a large open space with many sets of stairs connecting different levels, much like the Hogwarts staircases. No idea what it means.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's kind of cool! It doesn't sound like it's anxiety-producing. It actually seems kind of organized and inviting. Do you ever go up or down the stairs?

[teratologist.livejournal.com]

So far all my novels have had scenes where characters were endangered by the climate - either extreme heat or extreme cold.

Also, I realized recently that though the plot is completely different, in terms of characters my current novel is a gender-negative version of the film Metropolis - a male labor/poverty activist who lives underground and is a primarily nuturing figure; a female upper-class businessperson with a good heart, an attraction to the the aforementioned, and a powerful, scheming father; and a female mad scientist who has bad blood with the father. The evil father is still male though. I'm sure that when I'm published to the acclaim I deserve, someone will be able to dig a decent term paper out of it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Extreme climate--I never even thought of that, though I think of climate a lot. My stuff tends to take place either in summer (mild summer) or fall, probably because I love dusk in the summer and fall is my favorite season. I wonder if I'll ever have anybody go out in the snow.

It is nice to think about what those term papers might say--having seen Metropolis I'd be interested in a gender switch. I wonder if I'd have made that connection if I had read it without being told. I might have, I think...I think I'm still gloating over a novel a friend of mine published where I was apparently the only person who read it and knew what was going to happen at one point because it reminded me of the Canterbury Tale it was based on.:-)

[ellid.livejournal.com]

Yes. My characters do a lot with their eyes, and I try to watch for it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

There was one time people were rolling their eyes at each other--it was like a whole conversation. I do have to watch it. Also, as someone below does, I'm always having people blink at each other.

[tangleofthorns.livejournal.com]

Big moments always happen on phone calls. Usually phone calls being witnessed by outsiders. Or mundane phone calls interrupted by dramatic real-life events. Either way, the phone is trouble.

People are always leaning in doorways or against walls. And playing symbolically with glasses containing alcohol.

First kisses almost always happen in a physically awkward situation--across a desk or the middle of a car.

There's also an awful lot of marital infidelity in my work--I don't know why I end up in that place, unless it has to do with vague bits I know of family history, and I'd really prefer not to go to that place, Dr. Freud--but it's a dynamic that I'm frequently drawn to write about, from a lot of different angles.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

There's also an awful lot of marital infidelity in my work--I don't know why I end up in that place, unless it has to do with vague bits I know of family history, and I'd really prefer not to go to that place, Dr. Freud--but it's a dynamic that I'm frequently drawn to write about, from a lot of different angles.

I love that sort of thing, where you're drawn to a dynamic. I don't think it's usually something completely straightforward. It's more interesting when you're interested in something and just find that dynamic a good way to deal with it in a roundabout way.

I love the thing with the phone calls. I realize I tend to have a lot of people entering a conversation abruptly, with everybody else then having to turn around and realize they've entered, if that makes sense. So someone will say something and a surprise person will answer them.

Here via d_s

[parallactic.livejournal.com]

It's blinking for me. I find that my characters blink in surprise or incredulity, like they can't believe what they're seeing.

There's also the Walk of Angst, where the characters need to walk off a fight or emotional turmoil, preferably at night down unlit alleys, but I'm trying to cut down on this. This probably symbolizes aimlessness and confusion. Either that, or something esoteric like a hidden bunny phobia.

There's also the Anger Shows Caring where taciturn characters who have crappy intercommunication skills get angry and end up revealing that they're angry because they care and are concerned, but don't know of any healthy, constructive ways of expressing it. It's weird, but in RL I don't think of anger as a sign of caring, and would view it as a hostile act, but in fic I think of it as emotionally dramatic.

Do you mind if I friend you? I keep seeing your SN on the Daily_Snitch attached to interesting essays.

Re: Here via d_s

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can't believe I didn't think of that before you wrote it--I have people blink all the time too. For a while I wondered if it came from writing for cartoon universes, because that's such a cartoon staple, for the character to blink twice to indicate confusion or something. But I'm not sure. It just always sounds right.

It's weird, but in RL I don't think of anger as a sign of caring, and would view it as a hostile act, but in fic I think of it as emotionally dramatic.

Ah yes--I love the way you eventually make up a logic for how people act in your fiction that can be totally different from the way you think people act in real life. But it works.

Do you mind if I friend you? I keep seeing your SN on the Daily_Snitch attached to interesting essays.

Sure--welcome!:-)

[luthien.livejournal.com]

Beds.

Okay, you can stop laughing now. *g*

More specifically, people lying in bed with insomnia, people watching other people sleep, people coming to bed and finding someone's waiting for them. For some reason, a bed is often the first step to some sort of revelation for my characters or for my readers (though sometimes it's simply convenient for a sex scene, too. *g*)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ah! Beds, I never thought of that. But that's got to have a lot of meaning to it: somebody's bedroom or being in bed. For sex, of course, but other kinds of revelations as well.

[secondsilk.livejournal.com]

Here via daily_snitch
Appart from the fact that all my characters are running away from something, or returning from having run away (is there a reason why I like R/S post-Azkaban, do you think?), I have a couple.
My characters always argue passionately, but while standing still, opposite each other. I don't have them walking around the room, or turning their backs on each other.

I have occasionally played with other conventions. I once had a character snort because they had already sighed several times in one conversation. And in another story someone wishes it were raining, because that would be more dramatic.

There are some Sue-author conventions I have had to do away with, musical instruments most particularly. My brain quite likes going off in tangents, so I tend to put two people in a room with no distractions when I want to them to talk about something.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's interesting. I love the idea of the characters playing with the conventions themselves--sighing is another thing I often have to watch out for, but it's something that some characters would naturally do. It's wonderfully passive-aggressive!

[kyuuketsukirui.livejournal.com]

I had a couple people write really cool analyses of my writing recently, and one said something that really struck me, that I hadn't intentionally meant to put in, but is very true. And of course I can't find the post now. Grr. So I will try to remember what it was she said, basically that my characters are very loathe to talk about anything, even with those they trust completely, and that there's a sort of bleakness and loneliness, even when there's a happy ending. That's not really quite the same sort of theme as something like doors or corridors, but it is a theme that's present in a great deal of my fics and is not anything I consciously meant to put in (though it does reflect my own sensibilities, definitely).

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ooh, that does sound interesting. I think it's related to this type of thing too. It's like I know I've heard it said, "If you've read one Thomas Hardy novel you've read them all." Authors do tend to circle around the same human problems.

[executrix.livejournal.com]

I do a lot of "out for 20 years" stories--"I've been having sex with men since I was barely legal, so now let's worry about what kind of relationship I can have with YOU."

Also, over-elaborate meals--usually there's one character who's a foodie (although no wine bores because I don't know anything abou twine) and everybody else would really just as soon have a sandwich and a cup of tea.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hee-I love that! It makes me think of the Redwall books. They're always having these huge feasts and it's important to the plot, but it really makes you want to join in. Only in that case the food would probably be awful because it's really rodent food.

[mariagoner.livejournal.com]

When I write fiction (rarely, but it does happen!), I always end up writing with touch being the predominant sense depicted. Very odd, but I'm always having my characters touch themselves (not that way! ;), touch each other (comfortingly, angrily, erotically), or make gestures that sort of "stand in" for touching actions.

It's really hard for me to write a scene in which two characters feature without having them do something physical towards each other! Or at least, think of doing something physical-- and that's only if they tend to be straight-laced. And the few people I've shown my work have definitely wondered at that. Could it be because I come specifically from a culture (Bengali) that places so much emphasis on hugging and kissing to show affection? It's odd how culture bleeds in, no?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's cool! For me it's often smells. I think just because I like that in general--I have a lot of incense and I'm into personal perfume and all that, and candles and oils. So I'm often really aware of how everyplace smells more than what it looks like.

[(Anonymous)]

My stories vary so widely that it's hard to find common things in them; however I have noticed a couple of things.

Firstly, whenever people sit down to eat at a table together the scene will always be a happy one. I think this reflects the way I see my own dinner table - a place to enjoy myself and talk to people I like.

The other thing is a bit more vague, but basically all my stories fall in to two basic categories - they're either dark and twisted or cute and girly. Which is just a basic representation of my nature - I vary between the two states of being.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Those are both really cool--the kitchen thing is great, but I also like the way you've got those two extremes. Like the two sides of you conversing.

[mattador.livejournal.com]

Locationally? Probably towers, which I hope is more Jungian than Freudian. Thematically? Flight, and the various implications of flight- three out of five completed works of roiginal fiction have flight motifs, and characters in my Harry Potter stories tend to fly around on their brooms a lot.