Batman Begins

[sistermagpie]

Happy almost birthday to petitesoeur in case I don't post tomorrow.

Saw I saw Batman Begins. I feel incoherent, but

Totally loved it. I think I need to see it again just to enjoy it--it's just so satisfying seeing a movie with a *point,* you know? Where it has something to say and even if it maybe hits you over the head one to many times it's just because it knows what idea it's talking about. I agree with everyone saying this is the first Batman movie that was really about Batman, and it's quite amazing people didn't understand how important that was to make the movie work. I remember seeing George Clooney, poor soul, on a show before Batman & Robin saying how the studio had decided hey, Batman's moped about his parents long enough. He now needed to start a family "like the rest of us."

Shut up, George.

Though btw, I loved Christian Bale's Batman so much I would of course be interested in seeing him through all the big moments of Batman's career, including Robin. George Clooney and Chris O'Donnell were mildly interesting to me because I am a big fan of Robin/Nightwing, but not interesting in themselves. Now that this movie has shown you the complicated guy Bruce Wayne really is, I would be fascinated watching him take on all the issues of the Bruce/Dick relationship.

But that's not this movie--this movie was about doing a great job with other relationships, like Alfred/Bruce and Batman/Gordon (Gary Oldman=so great, and in the scenes where he'd be talking to Bats while taking out the trash I could have sworn came straight from the comic). Christopher Nolan has proved he knows how to do a movie about a man chasing an answer, for which he must keep asking the question, and I loved watching Bruce do that in this movie. In his various early conversations with people about fear and revenge, I think my personal favorite was the conversation with Falcone where he tells Bruce as Prince of Gotham he can't make it in Falcone's world. Somehow that speech worked even better coming *after* Ducard's lessons about becoming fear, the rougher, more instinctual version of what he was saying. Mostly I think it just hit me how *true* it was, and it's so key to who Batman is as a hero. He's not a society playboy swooping into the streets by night without getting his hands dirty. He's a real son of privilege who has to walk away and immerse himself in the real world to operate in it. cesperanza, in her excellent review makes the connection to Buddha, and I think that's very much what we're talking about here. Witnessing the death of his parents is not enough. That's a personal aspect, but he has to lose that to do something about it.

I was reading this good post talking about the change in backstory from the comics to the movie, and I actually really like a Bruce Wayne who drifts for a while and starts his training late--much as I love the other backstory as well--there's a Gotham Knights story where child!Bruce Wayne is pushed to the limits by the image of Batman that just sums up the creepy power of that. But I really liked the development of this Bruce, the way he was a somewhat fearful child (without going overboard) whose fear now indirectly lead to the death of his parents. Seeing Bruce try different, flawed ways of dealing with his guilt after that night made his final path as Batman all that more accessible to me as a viewer. One of the things I remember often arguing with LOTR purists over when it came to PJ's movies was that they often objected to characters in the movie making the wrong choice before the right choice when, in canon, they made the right choice the first time. I just thought obviously, in a movie, it's only dramatic to show the wrong choice first and lead us to the right choice with the character. I think there's a similar thing going on here. A young!Bruce who is immediately focused is interesting, but more removed from us as a viewer.

Acting-wise I loved everyone except, sorry, Katie Holmes. In fact, her character was probably my least favorite thing in the movie. She didn't ruin it for me, but she just seemed to belong in some other film. I found myself wondering why lonely heirs always manage to be lucky enough to have servants with one daughter exactly their own age who's also pretty. And why couldn't she just have been a friend, I thought? Why the servants child, even though their different statuses have no effect on their relationship whatsoever? Plus she always seemed unbelievable as a lawyer--every time she marched up to confront someone I expected her to say she was covering the story for her school paper before she reminded me she was supposed to be a lawyer. At the same time, I could often see the point of the character and wondered if she couldn't just have been done slightly differently. The scene where she slaps Bruce, for instance, I thought would have been more interesting if she were an older person--Rachel's mother, for instance.

But enough about her, the rest of the cast I loved. There were such wonderful sparks of connections between people during the movie--Lucius and Bruce, Alfred and Bruce, Gordon and Batman. I really believed all those men as having a past and being real men who were heroes and father figures in their own right. (And yes, when Gordon came out with the trash I was peeking in the window looking for Barbara :-D) Even Rutger Hauer's character and Falcone worked that way, although they were darker fathers, obviously--and of course, Liam Neeson too. What a great badass he was.

Oh, and while I haven't seen him mentioned enough I thought Cillian Murphy was FABULOUS! Sporting the best of the really wonderfully chosen eyewear in the movie, over those too-pale blue eyes, he grabbed my attention whenever he was onscreen. I'm a big fan of the Scarecrow in general, but it wasn't so much as a villain that he rocked (he was one of the secondary ones) but as a character. It's funny that I kept feeling Katie Holmes looked incredibly young, but Crane looked even younger. Only with Crane that just added to the creepy factor--he was playing doctor in a real sense.

But really, my biggest applause goes to Christian Bale. I've had a bit of a crush on him since his Treasure Island where he just looked incredibly cute in breeches and a ponytail, but I was overwhelmed here. Ces mentions how this movie finally demonstrates what a great *actor* Bruce Wayne is, and man, the scenes where Christian played Bruce Wayne playing Bruce Wayne were wonderful. But just as good were the moments when Bruce's personality naturally came out amongst the people he trusted. For instance, when he takes his first spin in the Batmobile proto-type, turns to Lucius with that smile that's a more natural, subdued version of the playboy persona and asks, "Does it come in black?"

Which brings me to the totally shallow thing I loved. The NYTimes review mentioned one thing that CB has that Michael Keaton most definitely did not was the ability to project the unselfconscious entitlement of a billionaire aristocrat. And boy do I appreciate that. Guilty confession: I am a big fangirl of luxury and Bruce was like my fantasy here. His clothes just always looked so *good*--understated, muted in color, but clearly expensive and well-made: yum. The sweaters--oh, the sweaters. Softest cashmere I'm sure. Working in the batcave in a perfectly-fitting, expensive dark tee-shirt. There's barely a difference when he smoothly buttons himself into a dress shirt and pulls on the suspenders of his tuxedo. Yes, I did think this aspect made his trading coats with the homeless man that much more significant! See, because he's not prissy. All that expensive equipment Batman has? He *made* it. With his hands. And with help from the best minds in science, yes. But look at him painting that bat suit himself (in the casual wear), filing those bat-a-rangs, working with goggles and a blow-torch. He can just do everything. It's sprezzatura--the art that conceals art, baby. He's Bruce Wayne: Super WASP!

Also, I really liked the hints of the Wayne family being this sort of dynasty of do-gooders, always connected to their city (see Ces's review also for great use of the city). The Batcave was part of the Underground Railroad? That's awesome! I love the implications of that! I just loved that unapologetic mixing of fantasy riches and superhero. It seems to fit more with the 1930s, when Batman first appeared. Nowadays the rich guy almost always has to be the villain (look at Titanic's handling of the first class passengers), but Batman's kept his Manor (and it's an American Manor, meaning it's quite a place!). When Alfred says the Manor has been the Wayne home for six generations ("Ooh, six whole generations?" the Europeans ask mockingly-shut up, a hundred years is a long time over here!), I found myself really wanting to know about all of them.

p.s. As usual I got mostly bad previews--War of the Worlds looks completely pointless. I did see a trailer for Willy Wonka, which mostly made me wonder why they bothered. I love Tim Burton, but it doesn't yet look like he's outdone the original movie. Plus, Johnny Depp, shockingly, did not impress me. The make-up makes him a little too much like Michael Jackson, and he just seemed annoying next to Gene Wilder, though I admit that I think his Willy Wonka is so incredible it would be hard for anyone to match it.

Comments

[sleeplessmarea.livejournal.com]

Saw the movie last night myself... and I'm still processing it... but I can say that I really LOVED IT! Oh.. the grim, gritty seriousness of the Wayne family back story, and of a Bruce who somehow is both fueled and inspired by "darkness" and his fears and learns to USE it rather than allowing it dominate his life. Really got into all that.

In every technical way (acting, cinematography, production design, MUSIC) the movie was nuanced and treated the subject matter with seriousness... its the only way (IMHO) to treat Batman (except for an out and out camp version - like the 60's TV show) and get a good result. I loved how the movie took some potentially ridiculous things (a millionaire who DRESSES like a BAT and runs around the city at night?) and made it all plausible. If the focus of the film had flinched for one instant... if it once looked winkingly at the audience, the spell would have been broken. But it didn't.

And pdd as it sounds... I especially appreciated those realistic looking bruises on Christian Bale's rather nice shirtless torso in that when Alfred wakes him up that morning. I don't remember ever seeing something like this in a superhero movie... something which has to be the inevitable result of all the brawling and falling. Besides, they reminded me of what my husband looks like the morning after he's been pummeled in a medieval tournament

Got to see that movie again... I know I'll have more to say about it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I love the way Bruce's regular life was integrated with what he was doing. Being a billionaire at least you knew he could sleep late! And also, I liked the way that saving his company was one of the things that he did to triumph in the end, so he was always sort of fighting on two fronts.

But yes, exactly, the way that the movie always took itself seriously, but not too seriously to become unrealistic. Like the TV series was funny because it played up the over-seriousness, but here Bruce was serious but still had perspective. As he himself says, "A guy who dresses up like a bat...has issues."

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

I saw Batman Begins. I feel incoherent

Pretty much my reaction too. "Guh!" "Omigod wow" and "squeeee" are not exactly insightful, but they are expressive :)

I loved Christian Bale's Batman so much I would of course be interested in seeing him through all the big moments of Batman's career, including Robin.

I'm so glad it's not just me that thinks that. My fixation on the Dick Grayson character is well-known, but I actually agree with, and have sympathy for the view that sometimes Batman needs to be solitary. However, seeing how good Bale is in this role, it gave me joy to imagine seeing him playing opposite a well-cast Dick Grayson. (Personally, I'd like to see them go with the "Dark Victory" version where he's half gypsy).

But I agree--not this movie. This movie is juuuust right as it is.

the scenes where he'd be talking to Bats while taking out the trash I could have sworn came straight from the comic)

The taking-out-the-trash scene is one of my favorites; it's so simple and real. You just see his wife and baby in the background; it's a throwaway moment done beautifully.

Several scenes are lifted from Batman: Year One (the SWAT team outside, Batman trapped inside).

my personal favorite was the conversation with Falcone

The actor playing Falcone was AMAZING. It's fascinating how not just the good guys but the bad guys had something to teach him.

why couldn't she just have been a friend

Even though Holmes telegraphed that Rachel was sekritly in luv with Bruce, I almost thought they would go the "friend" route--that she'd be like Amy Rohrbach to Nightwing, no romance. That would have been really impressive story-wise if they'd done that. So the movie gets a 98% instead of 100%, not a problem.

Why the servants child, even though their different statuses have no effect on their relationship whatsoever

Plot convenience. He needed a childhood sweetheart/friend type. Although, she could have easily been the child of the millionaires next door. I think her character was supposed to be so spunky that had to make her working class.

All that expensive equipment Batman has? He *made* it. With his hands.

I loved that too; they captured a facet that isn't often emphasized, that this young man was a visionary, that he created Batman out of whole cloth.

It seems to fit more with the 1930s, when Batman first appeared

Plus they had a "Depression" with a capital D. Very interesting, very 1930's.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad it's not just me that thinks that. My fixation on the Dick Grayson character is well-known, but I actually agree with, and have sympathy for the view that sometimes Batman needs to be solitary. However, seeing how good Bale is in this role, it gave me joy to imagine seeing him playing opposite a well-cast Dick Grayson. (Personally, I'd like to see them go with the "Dark Victory" version where he's half gypsy).

I was totally thinking half-gypsy!Dick as well. You could just see here with this Batman why it would be interesting seeing him become a surrogate father and working with another boy in a similar situation, because Dick isn't Bruce.

The actor playing Falcone was AMAZING. It's fascinating how not just the good guys but the bad guys had something to teach him.

It was really a great example of a good character actor just nailing the part and making it more than it could have been, without drawing attention to himself. It meant something when Crane drove him crazy.

Plot convenience. He needed a childhood sweetheart/friend type. Although, she could have easily been the child of the millionaires next door. I think her character was supposed to be so spunky that had to make her working class.

Yup, that's what I thought. It's a shame I was thinking those things, though. I never wonder things like that about Amy.

I loved that too; they captured a facet that isn't often emphasized, that this young man was a visionary, that he created Batman out of whole cloth.

It's funny that people sometimes forget, too, that Batman is a completely human superhero with no special powers. Just tricks and skill.

Plus they had a "Depression" with a capital D. Very interesting, very 1930's.

Yes, and it was great the way it gave a background to the current state of the city, too, setting everything in time so there's was a real history. Gotham had been around for a long time, and the current inhabitants could still remember the Depression etc.

[dotsomething.livejournal.com]

It had a timeless quality to it. Bits of his childhood seemed 1930's. The scene where he comes home from college, the clothing (I'm thinking of those sneakers--they were such a great touch) anywhere from 1940's to the 1990's if Bruce were the type of kid to dress "retro."

The look of the technology was the only thing in the rest of it that made it "dated" as 2005; for the rest it could also have been almost any post-industrial decade.

You could just see here with this Batman why it would be interesting seeing him become a surrogate father and working with another boy in a similar situation, because Dick isn't Bruce.

Heck with it, let's just have Nolan direct Nightwing: the Movie *g*

[mariannec.livejournal.com]

This is why I enjoy your journal. You write what I cannot even begin to express.

I feel sad for Christian Bale though. How terrible must it be for him, to be the star of the movie, and forced into the sidelines by Katie Holmes. Thank God she wasn't at the screening I attended.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

:-D Thanks!

And yeah, Katie Holmes' recent antics with her annoying boyfriend really have been especially annoying. There's this cast of great actors and really no reason to focus on her.

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

Christopher Nolan has proved he knows how to do a movie about a man chasing an answer

I just wanted to say that I started applauding wildly at this--yes, yes, yes, excellent call, and an excellent Nolanism. I just did a course in which I taught Memento as a postmodern noir, and noir, too, is all about landscape and double indemnities identities and getting lost in a city and reinventing yourself. He's just perfectly poised to take on and really understand this story!

Also, kudos for the point about the Wayne Aristocrats--maybe it's time that we started modelling nobless oblige rather than "My daddy was a rancher who worked hard and we deserve whatever we get!" If Anakin Skywalker is a thinly veiled GWB ("You're either with me or--no, wait. If you're not with me, then I'm with you. No, wait, I'll come in again..."), maybe the Waynes can evoke the aristocratic and beneficient spirit of FDR.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ooh, I love that description of Memento. Now I want to see it again, after seeing this one again, that is.

maybe the Waynes can evoke the aristocratic and beneficient spirit of FDR.

Absolutely! There's room for plenty of different role models, but FDR was plenty heroic.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

Yay! I'm glad you liked it. I was afraid to say too very much about it when I saw it. I wanted to wait until more people had seen it.

Here it is 4 days later and I still cannot shake Liam Neeson's performance from my mind. I've got to go back and watch it again just to watch him. He was brilliant.

[neotoma.livejournal.com]

Laim Neeson was wonderful -- though the bit towards the end where he admits to being the actual Ras al'Ghul had me squeeing like a mad thing.

All thanks to Ken Wantanabe for a good performance, but that was not how a 400-year eco-terrorist with a terrifying convinction in the Malthusian equation dies.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hee! I know what you mean. Liam Neeson was amazing from the first moment he was onscreen. When he stepped out of the shadows in that suit I was actually frightened!

[malafede.livejournal.com]

"like the rest of us."

Ew.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Double ew. So annoying.

batty thoughts

[petitesoeur.livejournal.com]

perhaps U & I & P should do a belated b-day gathering for "BB" open-captioned screening at the WRT on July 5th @ 6:15pm

Re: batty thoughts

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yes! Yes! I didn't even think they might be showing it.:-D

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I found it 'meh'. But then, I've never read the comics and I haven't seen all the films (I used to watch the cartoons when I was little, though, they were wicked!) so maybe that's why.

He now needed to start a family "like the rest of us."

Heh. Isn't George Clooney some commitment-phobe man-whore, though, anyway? WTF?

Anyway.
I loved Bruce's father, and Arkham Asylum.
Embarrassingly, I thought Liam Neeson was Jeremy Irons and that Falcone was Valcone the whole way through.

the scenes where Christian played Bruce Wayne playing Bruce Wayne were wonderful.

Yeah, they were probably some of my favourites, apart from the gas scenes. Loved the supermodel bit!

Acting-wise I loved everyone except, sorry, Katie Holmes. In fact, her character was probably my least favorite thing in the movie.

Agreed. I wanted to like her, because she seemed to have a much stronger concept of justice, and compassion than Bruce, but she was kind of sanctimonious and she didn't really seem to have any interesting personality quirks: just Brave and Righteous and Dedicated. (I rolled my eyes when she rescued that Loveable Moppet. Who was also kind of annoying - when he said 'He'll come, Batman'll come!' it reminded me of that kid in the Simpsons, in the parade: 'Santa's gotta come! HE'S JUST GOTTA!' Plus his LE TRAGIC 'No-one will believe me' and troubled home life. Shut up, kid.)

Plus she always seemed unbelievable as a lawyer--every time she marched up to confront someone I expected her to say she was covering the story for her school paper before she reminded me she was supposed to be a lawyer.

Hee! I think the worst part was when she was arguing with the Scarecrow in the asylum. She just sort of screwed up her face and moved her head as if it was a substitute for, you know, acting.

They went to a bit of effort to make her more than the token female, I guess - being the DA and all, but her acting was best, ironically, when she was playing the damsel in distress, in the car. That was the only time I really connected with her, where she did look terrified.

As usual I got mostly bad previews--War of the Worlds looks completely pointless. I did see a trailer for Willy Wonka, which mostly made me wonder why they bothered. I love Tim Burton, but it doesn't yet look like he's outdone the original movie. Plus, Johnny Depp, shockingly, did not impress me. The make-up makes him a little too much like Michael Jackson, and he just seemed annoying next to Gene Wilder, though I admit that I think his Willy Wonka is so incredible it would be hard for anyone to match it.

I love the casting for Mike Teevee, bizarrely. Charlie looks as sugary as the old one, though, and Johnny Depp...eh. Bit self-consciously quirky (I hate that 'Boo-yah!') and I liked Gene Wilder, too, he was just the right amount of playful but frightening - reminded me of Dumbledore!

"Ooh, six whole generations?" the Europeans ask mockingly-shut up, a hundred years is a long time over here!

*coddles Yank cheeks* ;)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Heh. Isn't George Clooney some commitment-phobe man-whore, though, anyway? WTF?

I think so...my guess is he's also just kind of a dimwit saying what the studio wanted him to say. He was so unsuited to the role from the get-go I can't hold it against him too much.

I love Arkham Aslylum.

Agreed. I wanted to like her, because she seemed to have a much stronger concept of justice, and compassion than Bruce, but she was kind of sanctimonious and she didn't really seem to have any interesting personality quirks: just Brave and Righteous and Dedicated.

Ah! I didn't think of it that way but yeah! All these other people also at least had reasons for believing what they did, and they were all obviously finding it hard to be sanctimonious because they all had to compromise. Except for this one little girl who was just always tough in the face of everything. It just made it seem like she was a kid and that she wasn't really involved in the story. She'd have been more interesting if she was a little corrupt or jaded too. Instead she was kind of just the Mary Sue who was always right. Like, in the scene where she slapped Bruce I thought that would have worked if she was her mother who really *knew* his father and it meant something personal. Instead it was like...who are you to be shaming him with his father who died when you were a child? You know, people who are the same age as you really don't *do* that.

I love the casting for Mike Teevee, bizarrely.

You know, that was the one kid that I thought looked good too. He's different from the original kid, but I could believe him. But yeah, it just seemed so self-conscious and all that. Gene Wilder was totally like Dumbledore! Only you liked him because he knew he was evil.

*coddles Yank cheeks* ;)

*pouts* You just hate our freedom.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

http://youlose.ytmnd.com/

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Gene rocks!!!!! No lifetime supply of chocolate for any of you!!

YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I wish he'd stuck to it, and taught annoying Grandpa Joe and Charlie a lesson. He always bugged me, laying around in bed for no apparent reason while Mrs. Bucket worked for them all.

I saw the trailer again today, with the new Ashton Kutcher rom com (WHY GOD WHY? This is the calibre of people I have as friends, clearly ;)
Charlie reminds me of Daniel Radcliffe, ie. he seems to chew. The LE TRAGIC 'I only get one bar a year' reminds me of 'I can't, Hedwig! I'm not allowed to do magic outside of school!' *sad look*

Re: YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That was totally my thought on Grampa Joe. They all sucked for doing that, but I remember being furious that he not only could walk but got an allowance for tobacco when Charlie got one chocolate bar a year.

I just typed "Harry" instaed of "Charlie." Yes, they are both long-suffering.

Re: YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR!

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I think they gave Charlie some of their food (although of course, he wouldn't take much, being such a saint) but really, it's the least they could do, considering it was practically their fault they were so poor.

I also love the ultra-cheesy 'Candy doesn't have to have a reason. That's why it's candy.' Shut up, kid!

[fungus-files.livejournal.com]

drive-by comment :) loved your thoughts on the film and reading the comments above. I so liked it and it's really set the standard high, which is how it should be.

am with you on the superfluous katie factor. she wasn't as terrible as I feared she would be, but it was obvious how out-shone she was by the rest of the cast.

and I'd have to join you in the Bale love. I'm hoping this film brings some long overdue recognition for him. I also want to see the machinist which is meant to be v bleak, etc, but he's apparently amazing.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I was ahppy Katie didn't ruin the film, and she was sometimes used to good purpose so I'm okay with it. Especially since I could always look at Christian Bale. I'm thinking of seeing The Machinest too, hoping it won't be too upsetting to watch!

[no-detective.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say I really enjoyed reading this, and I did a lot of nodding throughout. Great review!

Guilty confession: I am a big fangirl of luxury and Bruce was like my fantasy here. His clothes just always looked so *good*

and

He can just do everything. It's sprezzatura--the art that conceals art, baby. He's Bruce Wayne: Super WASP!

LOL - Amen, sister! I think one of the reasons why I enjoyed Bale in this role was the ease with which he assumes that kind of "born into luxury, feeling 100% natural in it" attitude. Which is even better when you see him making things with his own hands. Just... guh. What a combo!

I must run along now, but I wanted to give you the heads-up: Bale, Caine, and Freeman are already signed up for the sequel, but Katie's been dropped. I'm sure you'll appreciate the news as much as I have!

(P.S. I also think Depp's Willy Wonka looks like Michael Jackson. Eeeeek.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

I think one of the reasons why I enjoyed Bale in this role was the ease with which he assumes that kind of "born into luxury, feeling 100% natural in it" attitude. Which is even better when you see him making things with his own hands. Just... guh. What a combo!

Oh yes yes yes! You can't get a much better combination. Just the way he walks announces he's a billionaire. The person I saw it with said she especially loved the way when Alfred comes to pick him up in the plane he so easily steps back into the life of Bruce Wayne after being away. It's that natural.

Bale, Caine, and Freeman are already signed up for the sequel, but Katie's been dropped. I'm sure you'll appreciate the news as much as I have!

*pumps fist in air!*

[profshallowness.livejournal.com]

Great, comprehensive review.

You make a good point about the fact that Katie Holmes seemed so young, and that the scene leading up to the slap would have carried more weight if it had been her mother - Rachel was described as an idealist, and though she pulled off the grand gesture of showing Bruce the people who were still affected by thhe Depression (in a swish looking car) it seemed as if it had come easliy to the character. I think we were to infer a lot from the spunky working class archetype rather than what we got on screen. Most of my (minor) problems with the character were more related to how she was written than how she was played, though.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks!

And I agree, it's really a problem with the writing, I don't think Katie made it worse with her acting. The character is really too young for some of the things she's supposed to be doing--you really don't usually tell someone your own age that his father would be ashamed of him. That kind of thing only has power coming from someone who knew your father as a peer.

I think we were to infer a lot from the spunky working class archetype rather than what we got on screen.

Yes, that's what I thought too. Luckily the character was used well, though.