Amateur HP Psychology

[sistermagpie]

I am not getting any e-mail and I don't know why. They just started coming, but anything from today before the last ten minutes seems to be gone.

I've been reading this book on the Shadow as in Jung (kind of a theme lately) and I'm reading about how the Shadow is all the things you repress in yourself, so you're enraged when you see them in other people. So somebody else could be a terrible person but wouldn't bother you as much because you're not repressing those kinds of things too much. What's horrible about it is I'm reading and knowing that my shadow…

Is post-GoF Ginny Weasley.

She's not the only one, obviously, but oh my god she so is my shadow. When I hear anyone defending her--even reasonably--I am filled with rage. Of course, being who I am (what I repress) I have to try to listen objectively and even admit when the person has a point, because I always want to be accurate and blah blah. Sometimes even I have to defend her because something's off. But what I really want to do is hex the person so that they shut up. Or say something mean that's probably like, "Don't start talking about Quidditch, you'll only embarrass yourself." Or run into the person and put them in the infirmary. This is why it's so strange when people say one must hate Ginny because one wants Harry for herself, because when Harry is liking Ginny it's hard for me to just not see him as a jerk. Like I picture them in their 30s as some dreadful couple I'd avoid. Unfortunately this isn't exactly objective canon analysis, so I can't usually just say that.

The one good thing about this is Lupin is a lot like me in this way--I mean, the kind of stuff he swallows--so maybe he hates her too. I believe when Ginny is throwing her temper tantrum in OotP Lupin quietly shuts the door. For Lupin that's probably the equivalent of smacking her in the face. Poor guy has to live with her.

Oh, the other thing I just read in one essay in the book that we tend to notice and react to Shadow things more in our own gender than the opposite gender--we can ignore stuff when it's in the other gender. I guess that's where fandom's OMG U R JUS JELLUS AND U DON'T LIKE GIRLZ!!1!!1

I was thinking about this in my ballet class, mostly because I have another Shadow problem there, or maybe it's just a pet peeve. Okay, in a dance class you often split into groups to do combinations. There is this woman who always GOES WITH ALL THE GROUPS! In this case there's just the two groups, but it drives me up a tree. The point is to split up so there's room. Yes, she's just one more person, but why the hell does she get to decide that she's the person who gets to dance whenever she wants because everyone else is only going once? What if everybody just decided to do that? (And btw, we're talking about somebody who's in class with some professional dancers--not me--and is herself not even really on the level the class is at. Every time I see her doing it I start stewing. Also she always winds up standing near me so I'm wishing there wasn't somebody so close to me because I don't like people behind me and look--it's her!

Comments

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Hahahahahaha (sorry, that's... I shouldn't just leave it at that, but it's tempting.) :>
I totally know what teratologist was saying in the comments about starting to resent any character people defend too much and liking the one people slag off-- though with Draco, people both defend him (too much) and slag him off (too much), so I'm always torn. Though in my -presence-, I feel they defend him too much, perhaps ;)) I really feel it's a sign of my great virtue (and my own obsession with Draco, I guess) that I continue to resist overt reactionary measures~:))

I think I get filled with rage (or something like it) when people defend Lucius, but no one really does (they say he's hot or interesting or they identify with him, but they don't tend to go all out and defend him, and if they do I blame it on the people defending him-- being not the sort of people I like-- rather than Lucius). Anyway, the reason I dislike him so much is the whole thing I have against manipulativeness and shrewdness and power-hungryness, etc. I don't think I'm secretly like that, though-- you can deeply dislike things and not actually be repressing those things, though I -am- aware I repress dominant/aggressive/alpha tendencies within myself (while not disliking it in characters). So does that mean a character like Sirius would be my shadow or not--? Like, are you allowed to not dislike and actually be attracted to the behaviors you won't/can't allow yourself?? I mean, I guess I've always wanted to be more 'butch' than I am, or something ^^;

It's true I dislike manipulative girls even more than manipulative guys, but it's just that girls are -differently- manipulative. Girls are even more sneaky than guys, it seems to me-- there's a different pattern for the same -type- of behavior. A manipulative liar, if it's a guy, might bebelievably conflicted and emotionally repressed or just deeply immature-- with a girl, I have a harder time buying the immaturity bit because I expect a girl to know what's -really- going on more. Though I don't tend to have hate-ons -or- love-ons for female characters as much, anyway. I can't think of -one- female character I've -hated-. I can really identify with a girl or think a girl is really cool (or boring), but I don't get emotionally attracted/involved enough to get pissed, generally. Odd. (I like girls! No, really...er...)

I think it's very basic to Harry's character-- or rather, pretty natural-- that he'd like Ginny. How it was -portrayed- (not well) is another thing, but that he likes Ginny is pretty 'no duh' to me in a way liking say, Hermione -or- Draco isn't. Though I've never really thought of Harry as someone desirable to have an acquaintance anyway-- I think he's the sort of person one would only really appreciate as a close friend, because otherwise he'd probably come off 'wrong' because he doesn't tend to project his personality very much. They probably -would- (will, ahahahah... okay that was a bit of an evil laugh, sorry, that's my inner Ginny for you-- well, mostly pre-OoTP-type) be an annoying couple, but I suspect much like Lily & James, they'll mellow with age. Harry's already started with the mellowing, I believe. So I suspect they'll become rather... um, distant shiny-from-afar-yet-friendly types. Maybe. Cliquish?

Anyway, my main point was that the parallels between Self & Shadow would probably be more complex(?) than just repression having to spill over into resentment. As in, you don't have to resent the things you repress, and don't have to be repressing the things you resent. Or something ^^; Brain hurty. -.-

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I totally know what teratologist was saying in the comments about starting to resent any character people defend too much and liking the one people slag off-- though with Draco, people both defend him (too much) and slag him off (too much), so I'm always torn.

Yeah, but then the trouble is is that the people who defend him too much may have started out annoyed at people slagging him off too much, and much of the slagging is in response to the defending (espeically in fanon) so it's a vicious cycle.

I think I get filled with rage (or something like it) when people defend Lucius, but no one really does (they say he's hot or interesting or they identify with him, but they don't tend to go all out and defend him, and if they do I blame it on the people defending him-- being not the sort of people I like-- rather than Lucius).

I think it's always just easier when it's obviously something outside canon. It tends to annoy me more when people a) claim that their reading is canon and b) other people let them get away with that, you know?

Like, are you allowed to not dislike and actually be attracted to the behaviors you won't/can't allow yourself?? I mean, I guess I've always wanted to be more 'butch' than I am, or something ^^;

Yes, absolutely. Draco is probably a Shadow of me too in the other direction. There are things about him that I don't identify as part of my personality/ego at all, but I like them, like the way he's so open emotionally and all that. So yeah, you can totally be that way in a character. It's not that any character you dislike *must* be a Shadow, because people do things we dislike for other reasons all the time. It's just if your dislike goes overboard then it's probably your Shadow. The key is you're supposed to integrate your Shadow into yourself by identifying it as part of you and accepting it so it isn't so GET THEE BEHIND ME, SATAN! It's just scary at first because of the deep hatred and all.

You realize who your real Shadow in HP is, don't you?

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

...All I really have to tell you (right now!!) is that I'm NOT LUCIUS OMG!!1!!11 (ahahah... ha... *coughs*) I really hope that's not who you meant. I dunno if I have an over-the-top reaction to him unless I'm faced with outright cane-worship Harry-topping smut, and even then I just feel sick ^^;; It's just hard for me to buy that I'm secretly manipulative/shrewd/etc-- I mean, I always thought I accepted big faults within myself pretty well. Argh, brain hurty (more). Actually, I got sort of scared when you said that about my Shadow~:)) I have this deep-seated feeling that I Don't Want To Know (though I'm not aware of hating any character but Lucius... though I rag on Draco from time to time, I mean... heh. Not the same??)

...you know, come to think of it, I really wouldn't want Satan behind me but rather in front of me... In fact, I sort of get goosebumps imagining scaryevilomg things BEHIND ME OMG ACK. (Haven't had any sleep yet. Er. -.-)

You're right about it being a vicious cycle with people defending/attacking/defending. I really wish people stopped defending and attacking -both-, but then that's why I avoid fandom, ahahah. Except for most of my fandom friends now being 'actual' friends so I guess I'll never hear the end of Dracolove and Harrybashing for quite some while~:))

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Heh--no, I didn't mean Lucius. But he's probably a junior Shadow somewhere. I don't know what your idea of Lucius is enough to really know. I mean, I know you don't like him but I don't know, like, how he comes across to you exactly because he's rarely in canon.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

So who did you mean?? I really need to know now *cries* I can't sleep until you tell me ;(( WAAAAAAAHHHH :((

...Hahah, I think what I don't like is fanon!Lucius and the rendition of him that most of his fans would give him :D You know, arrogant and powerful and manipulative-- I can handle. Also being kind of -right- or juustified or just not challenged-- he's like the living symbol of the patriarchy or something. It makes me shudder, but not in a good way. I mean, I often love alpha bastards, but still only if I feel they're not part of the System (on purpose-- I don't like meta that makes them part of it if their personality doesn't go for it). If we're talking other possible interpretations, I'm generally uninterested but fine. Actually, a lot of my issues with all things Slytherin & Fetish come because they're fetish more than the Slytherin part ^^;

But yeah, I don't have the greatest in-depth idea of him, I guess. But everything I ever hear from people, I don't like. I don't think I ever actually disliked a character -because- of canon. It's always been fanon, or fandom (or fans most specifically). So perhaps what I actually dislike is some fans, ahahaha :))

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

So who did you mean?? I really need to know now *cries* I can't sleep until you tell me ;(( WAAAAAAAHHHH :((

The one you hate the most, of course.


Reena=Fanon!Draco

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

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...I... sort of know what you mean... -.-;;;;

[chocolatepot.livejournal.com]

starting to resent any character people defend too much and liking the one people slag off

I really think this is the reason I'm starting to like Ginny more and more and Hermione less -- too much fandom debate, uch. I'm a very contrary person, and when people are all, "Well, it's okay for Hermione to give people permanent pimples because Marietta knew what she was agreeing to when she signed the paper -- but I hope Ginny gets raped by Grawp!" I start thinking, "I love Ginny! Hermione is amoral! RAWR!"

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I find this is the best reason to avoid most fandom discussions. After a while even characters you dislike you have to defend and characters you do like you have to start pointing out their flaws.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

The whole thing is, Hermione didn't get with Harry-- I think we'd be seeing a huge resurgence of Hermione hate if she did~:)) Not that this accounts for all the Ginny hate, but a lot, I think, would be milder if not for the H/G. Though personally, I'm contrary enough but not flippant enough to actually change my real feelings due to other people, though I might get really annoyed and tetchy. Or -more- likely to defend a character I already liked for some reason. Like, I can never just -join in- hatefests even if I agree. I'm like, BUT YOU'RE ALL MEANIES, no matter who it is. Can't join in lovefests either (start feeling a bit greenish from sugar-shock, usually). Am really no good at parties, clearly :>