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I've been having a lot of trouble logging into LJ. Like, it didn't let me all day at work. Hopefully it will get fixed soon!
Anyway, this post...In which I make sad face about Bat comics. :-(
I was reading Red Robin #12 today and it was great. I’ve loved this comic from the beginning and this arc did everything it set out to do. But even though this story ended in the perfect way, with stuff that I should have absolutely loved, I wound up just feeling sad. The reason?
I'm jealous. Spoilers for Red Robin below.
RR started with Tim lashing out at people and pushing them away, but them not taking it personally, which was refreshing. Instead of creating conflict where there should be none, the conflict was all within Tim himself with his friends and family only worried about him. Instead of an actual fight between Dick and Tim, there were scenes of Tim demanding Dick's trust as a brother and getting it, even though Tim was acting strangely. This issue has Tim triumphing over Ra’s, but falling to his death in the process until Dick catches him out of nowhere. Tim says later he knew Dick would catch him, because he’s his brother and he’ll always be there for him. AWWWW!
My favorite relationship in the Batverse and it’s right there supporting Tim through the whole story. What’s not to love?
Well, nothing. And maybe that was my problem. RR did so right by Tim. They gave him a storyline where he had a clear emotional arc with motivations and feelings and behavior that made sense (I never got the whole "Tim’s just being a jerk/being emo/being mean to his friends!" complaints), a logical way of working through them, new relationships with people who were drawn to him and had interesting interactions with him. It was definitely a coming of age story—complete with literal minor emancipation at the end. Plus it gave Tim a hugely important role in protecting Bruce’s legacy. Where Dick might be Batman, Tim is the point man Lucius goes to to take over Wayne Industries. Now we've got lighter complications when he winds up on the front page with a phony engagement even he doesn't know about. He’s awesome and his friends and family love him and he loves them back. Welcome home, Tim.
But I thought, you know, throughout this whole Batman Reborn phase, this is the type of thing I keep longing for with Dick and he’s just not getting it. I don’t need Dick to be more awesome than everyone else. But a year into this it still feels like Dick’s main job is to not be Bruce so that other people can shine. Steph gets a new identity and new respect in Batgirl. Tim becomes an adult hero in Red Robin. Damian is ridiculously overpowered, bloodthirsty and insults everyone (so hilarious!) but is also a noble hero with a heart of gold growing into his destiny and rejecting his evil past. And Dick…
Dick makes all this possible by not being Bruce.
It’s not that I need my favorite character to be the best at everything. I have no problem with him struggling and making mistakes. But it just doesn’t feel like anybody who’s been writing him has the kind of exciting plan in their head for "here’s how I’m showing you Dick is awesome and he will become awesome as Batman" that exists for these other characters (Barbara will I think soon be getting that in BoP, and Kate has it now). It’s not that they are always writing Dick badly, really, it’s just that he’s not special either. Thinking back I feel like Judd Winick was practically the only guy who seemed to have an idea of writing a story for Dick!Batman rather than just Batman who’s not Bruce. Often they seem more interested in any character in the book other than Dick--Damian's the one with the arc in B&R and Streets of Gotham, Tony Daniel's Batman was crowded with people, with Dick not much more important than anyone else.
Thinking back over the year, it seems like there’s been endless references to Dick being not good at things, but without the satisfying payoff of how he's uniquely good regardless. Off the top of my head I can remember him thinking he’s not good at figuring out patterns in things—that Tim was always better at that. While Tim becomes the controlling shareholder in WE (without Dick being clued in—understandable for story purposes but still making him clueless) and Damian lectures the board on how he can find financial irregularities hidden in the finances that teams of accountants can’t (honestly, GM!), Dick brushes off Lucius’s call of financial concern by saying he’s just got no head for business—he grew up in a circus! (WTF?)
In fact, he’s been almost constantly surrounded by criticism and disrespect. Which I don’t have a problem with in itself—it just makes things all the sweeter when the character succeeds if people don’t believe in him. Batgirl runs on this idea, obviously. But Dick's arc doesn’t really seem to be about getting him to that success. When he gets insulted or imposed upon it’s not really in order to get to a place where he turns that around. It’s more just well, you’re not Bruce.
It just makes me sad, because it’s not like it’s about making him better than Bruce or anyone else, it's sinking your teeth into why this hero is awesome. I think that’s why RR really drove it home for me, because RR is showing a completely different but related character being awesome. (Tim is the one who gets to pull the "I knew what you were doing all along!" Batman-stuff while *also* doing the "I have loads of friends I asked for help and so I am not Batman!" card.) I just don't feel like most writers have had a clear idea of what the story of Dick as Batman is. They can write Batman--sometimes it could almost be Bruce under the cowl. They can write Batman as not Bruce. They know Dick isn’t Bruce. But there’s no clear idea for Dick!Batman—why he’s special, why he’s a worthy alternative rather than just a fill-in. Batgirl and Red Robin clearly have a handle on the transition going on in those titles. The Batman titles don't seem to have this at all, at least for Batman. Dick's competent, but he should be more than competent.
I can’t honestly think of any winning moments, in fact. It’s not that he’s been this big failure. Cases have been solved. But I can’t remember them ever having a fist-pump feeling, like the way many Bruce stories do or the way the end of RR let’s you know that this is why Tim pwns you. It’s more just like, "I figured it out. Finally. Often while doing oddly reckless things along the way." It’s a big contrast to the clear cases being made for Batgirl, Red Robin and Batwoman in their books. (Dick's turning of Damian is rather personal rather than a hero thing. In a way he's melting Damian's heart the way he melted Bruce's as Robin.) Maybe more important, I can't think of too many stories that were showing an interesting character moment--for instance, like that recent SoG story where Damian met that other kid.
It almost feels like the writers of the support characters/books were inspired to really do something with them in ways Bat writers were not inspired about Dick. Maybe they just wanted to write Batman. After all this time I have a much clearer idea of how Dick's hampered by the assignment--he can't do the stuff Bruce is known for as well as Bruce can, while the costume and persona forbids him being Nightwing--than I do for what he's brought to it. B&R, for instance, had an early convo with Alfred about playing Batman as a role since Dick is a performer. GM is always interested in origins and hits Dick as circus boy pretty heavily. Yet he never plays out a Batman who's hamming it up and putting his own spin on the role, then coming home to discuss the night's performance.
Bruce Wayne’s return is on the way now. How would he view Dick’s time as Batman? He'd have reason to praise him for the good shape the network is in since his absence, at least. Other characters might prefer Dick for being less of a tight-ass than Bruce, much like fourth graders look forward to substitute teachers who lack their regular teacher's authority. He didn't burn the house down. But I wind up thinking of that Seinfeld storyline where J. Peterman went on walkabout and left Elaine in charge of the company. Upon his return Elaine is obviously hoping for a little job-well-done praise, maybe a promotion. Peterman tells her heartily to just think of it as a job…done.
Anyway, this post...In which I make sad face about Bat comics. :-(
I was reading Red Robin #12 today and it was great. I’ve loved this comic from the beginning and this arc did everything it set out to do. But even though this story ended in the perfect way, with stuff that I should have absolutely loved, I wound up just feeling sad. The reason?
I'm jealous. Spoilers for Red Robin below.
RR started with Tim lashing out at people and pushing them away, but them not taking it personally, which was refreshing. Instead of creating conflict where there should be none, the conflict was all within Tim himself with his friends and family only worried about him. Instead of an actual fight between Dick and Tim, there were scenes of Tim demanding Dick's trust as a brother and getting it, even though Tim was acting strangely. This issue has Tim triumphing over Ra’s, but falling to his death in the process until Dick catches him out of nowhere. Tim says later he knew Dick would catch him, because he’s his brother and he’ll always be there for him. AWWWW!
My favorite relationship in the Batverse and it’s right there supporting Tim through the whole story. What’s not to love?
Well, nothing. And maybe that was my problem. RR did so right by Tim. They gave him a storyline where he had a clear emotional arc with motivations and feelings and behavior that made sense (I never got the whole "Tim’s just being a jerk/being emo/being mean to his friends!" complaints), a logical way of working through them, new relationships with people who were drawn to him and had interesting interactions with him. It was definitely a coming of age story—complete with literal minor emancipation at the end. Plus it gave Tim a hugely important role in protecting Bruce’s legacy. Where Dick might be Batman, Tim is the point man Lucius goes to to take over Wayne Industries. Now we've got lighter complications when he winds up on the front page with a phony engagement even he doesn't know about. He’s awesome and his friends and family love him and he loves them back. Welcome home, Tim.
But I thought, you know, throughout this whole Batman Reborn phase, this is the type of thing I keep longing for with Dick and he’s just not getting it. I don’t need Dick to be more awesome than everyone else. But a year into this it still feels like Dick’s main job is to not be Bruce so that other people can shine. Steph gets a new identity and new respect in Batgirl. Tim becomes an adult hero in Red Robin. Damian is ridiculously overpowered, bloodthirsty and insults everyone (so hilarious!) but is also a noble hero with a heart of gold growing into his destiny and rejecting his evil past. And Dick…
Dick makes all this possible by not being Bruce.
It’s not that I need my favorite character to be the best at everything. I have no problem with him struggling and making mistakes. But it just doesn’t feel like anybody who’s been writing him has the kind of exciting plan in their head for "here’s how I’m showing you Dick is awesome and he will become awesome as Batman" that exists for these other characters (Barbara will I think soon be getting that in BoP, and Kate has it now). It’s not that they are always writing Dick badly, really, it’s just that he’s not special either. Thinking back I feel like Judd Winick was practically the only guy who seemed to have an idea of writing a story for Dick!Batman rather than just Batman who’s not Bruce. Often they seem more interested in any character in the book other than Dick--Damian's the one with the arc in B&R and Streets of Gotham, Tony Daniel's Batman was crowded with people, with Dick not much more important than anyone else.
Thinking back over the year, it seems like there’s been endless references to Dick being not good at things, but without the satisfying payoff of how he's uniquely good regardless. Off the top of my head I can remember him thinking he’s not good at figuring out patterns in things—that Tim was always better at that. While Tim becomes the controlling shareholder in WE (without Dick being clued in—understandable for story purposes but still making him clueless) and Damian lectures the board on how he can find financial irregularities hidden in the finances that teams of accountants can’t (honestly, GM!), Dick brushes off Lucius’s call of financial concern by saying he’s just got no head for business—he grew up in a circus! (WTF?)
In fact, he’s been almost constantly surrounded by criticism and disrespect. Which I don’t have a problem with in itself—it just makes things all the sweeter when the character succeeds if people don’t believe in him. Batgirl runs on this idea, obviously. But Dick's arc doesn’t really seem to be about getting him to that success. When he gets insulted or imposed upon it’s not really in order to get to a place where he turns that around. It’s more just well, you’re not Bruce.
It just makes me sad, because it’s not like it’s about making him better than Bruce or anyone else, it's sinking your teeth into why this hero is awesome. I think that’s why RR really drove it home for me, because RR is showing a completely different but related character being awesome. (Tim is the one who gets to pull the "I knew what you were doing all along!" Batman-stuff while *also* doing the "I have loads of friends I asked for help and so I am not Batman!" card.) I just don't feel like most writers have had a clear idea of what the story of Dick as Batman is. They can write Batman--sometimes it could almost be Bruce under the cowl. They can write Batman as not Bruce. They know Dick isn’t Bruce. But there’s no clear idea for Dick!Batman—why he’s special, why he’s a worthy alternative rather than just a fill-in. Batgirl and Red Robin clearly have a handle on the transition going on in those titles. The Batman titles don't seem to have this at all, at least for Batman. Dick's competent, but he should be more than competent.
I can’t honestly think of any winning moments, in fact. It’s not that he’s been this big failure. Cases have been solved. But I can’t remember them ever having a fist-pump feeling, like the way many Bruce stories do or the way the end of RR let’s you know that this is why Tim pwns you. It’s more just like, "I figured it out. Finally. Often while doing oddly reckless things along the way." It’s a big contrast to the clear cases being made for Batgirl, Red Robin and Batwoman in their books. (Dick's turning of Damian is rather personal rather than a hero thing. In a way he's melting Damian's heart the way he melted Bruce's as Robin.) Maybe more important, I can't think of too many stories that were showing an interesting character moment--for instance, like that recent SoG story where Damian met that other kid.
It almost feels like the writers of the support characters/books were inspired to really do something with them in ways Bat writers were not inspired about Dick. Maybe they just wanted to write Batman. After all this time I have a much clearer idea of how Dick's hampered by the assignment--he can't do the stuff Bruce is known for as well as Bruce can, while the costume and persona forbids him being Nightwing--than I do for what he's brought to it. B&R, for instance, had an early convo with Alfred about playing Batman as a role since Dick is a performer. GM is always interested in origins and hits Dick as circus boy pretty heavily. Yet he never plays out a Batman who's hamming it up and putting his own spin on the role, then coming home to discuss the night's performance.
Bruce Wayne’s return is on the way now. How would he view Dick’s time as Batman? He'd have reason to praise him for the good shape the network is in since his absence, at least. Other characters might prefer Dick for being less of a tight-ass than Bruce, much like fourth graders look forward to substitute teachers who lack their regular teacher's authority. He didn't burn the house down. But I wind up thinking of that Seinfeld storyline where J. Peterman went on walkabout and left Elaine in charge of the company. Upon his return Elaine is obviously hoping for a little job-well-done praise, maybe a promotion. Peterman tells her heartily to just think of it as a job…done.
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Yes! I think the problem has been we're not seeing Dick as Batman under the cowl in all the Batbooks. Streets of Gotham? Yes. (Save for those two issues written by Mike Benson, I believe it was....)Batman and Robin? Yes. (And Dick telling Slade exactly how many people died in Bludhaven was fabulous.) But it's not across the board and I think that's been one of the main problems. Actually I think that's THE biggest problem.
Agreed, the scenes between Dick and Selina were good, but I don't even hear Dick's inner monologue voice coming through in Batman. If it's a performance that Dick's doing, then make his actions be like Batman's fine, but not his inner monologue. That's one of the things that really bothers me.
And you know, I know fans have nitpicked at Dick not having a head for numbers thing before, but I don't know, I don't see a problem with it. I mean I want these characters to have flaws and not know everything. It makes them more "human-like." I'm perfectly fine with Dick being the optimistic *Go-team* leader who endears himself to everyone around, rather than being able to do and be everything. Bruce himself left the books to Lucius anyways.
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Meanwhile Damian had that imo painful scene with the board where professional accountants are incapable of doing the accounting that's their job while Damian just picks it up like it's a hobby that of course he can do at 10. As you say, Bruce isn't a whiz at this either--that's what Lucius is for. He's the financial whiz. But I'd think everybody else would be capable of understanding Lucius enough to follow through on his recommendations, if that makes sense. It's like at this point other characters all have places where they're established as the best at something, the person you'd go to. Where as Dick is just sort of a reliable helper in whatever. Which isn't bad in itself, but it seems like the values of the Batverse rank it pretty low.
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You know, I like Damian, but I'd have to agree. Even though Tim figured out Bruce, Jason and Dick's identities at the age of nine, so could it be done? I don't know... I think Tim's detective skills are much different from the time it takes to acquire business skills like the ones Damian seems to possess.
I thought you'd find this interesting, Fabian Nicieza talks about Damian, Tim and Wayne Enterprises here: (http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000214255&start=165&tstart=0) (Not my question btw)
My question is, will Damian continue to be involved with the running of Wayne Enterprises? The idea of Tim and Damian (who have very little love for eachother) teaming up together in the boardroom is highly amusing to me, and i'd love to see it.
I think the idea of a 10 year old vying against a 17 year old for control of an international conglomerate and charitable foundation is kind of silly. I mean, it might make for some fun interaction, but ultimately, it's in service to kind of a silly story thread.
Who is bequeathed ownership of a company in a will and who is qualified to run it are two totally different things.
Damian might not get that, but I assure you, Tim does.
-- fabian
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Love Fabian's answer, though. No 17 or 10 year olds running companies please!
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