Continuing in my usual need to see twins everywhere, I wanted to talk about Sirius and Percy in OotP. It's long. Why do these things always get so long when I write them?? I'm cutting the whole thing so there's no spoilers whatsoever, with handy Percy and Sirius titles for easy skipping!



I keep hearing Percy described as "evil" everywhere, mostly in a tongue-in-cheek but grain-of-truth way. So I thought, why is he evil? More evil than, say, Seamus' mother who also believes Fudge over Harry? Seems what's really upsetting about Percy is the way he rejects his family, both the people and their values, and makes his mother cry.

But isn't this exactly what Sirius is applauded for himself?

Okay, there are obviously big differences between the Weasleys and the Blacks. The Weasleys are nice, non-racist people and haven't burned Percy out of any pictures yet. The Blacks, as described by Sirius and from the little we see of them, seem to be borderline psychotics and racists besides. Sort of Borgias with magic. (Though I must admit if I were a Borgia I'd probably think that was kind of cool now that they're all safely dead...) Sirius has Good and Moral Reasons for rejecting his family. But you know, in some ways I think it was just luck that Sirius' rejection of his family happened to coincide with good values (maybe the only way he's ever been lucky...poor Sirius) because I think Percy and Sirius followed similar paths in making their decisions.

From book I Percy has been the black sheep of the Weasley family, eager to be a success in government at school and in the WW, obsessed with rules and proper behavior. He's a figure of ridicule for his family, the twins especially, even as they love him as a brother. Given Percy's personality I can easily see how this led to the situation in OotP. Percy is the only non-athlete and non-prankster in the Weasley house. His way of getting attention is by being the "good boy" who was responsible and followed the rules while others ran wild. Molly loves all her children and is certainly proud when Percy's behavior leads to things like his being a prefect or Head Boy. But still, I do get the feeling that the twins and the others sucked up most of the attention. The twins' antics, for all the trouble they cause, obviously make them well-loved by everyone. I can well imagine Percy growing up thinking that the very people who disparage him the most are the favorites. It's not just that they make fun of him, it's that they literally don't value the things he holds important. Percy longs for order, they create chaos everywhere. Ginny, Ron, Bill and Charlie all seem to share that basic sense of mischief. None of them follow rules for their own sake. Percy responds by becoming more extreme on his side, defining himself as everything the others aren't. The Weasleys seem, on the surface, to be the "individuals" here in contrast to Percy's regulated position, but within the Weasley household it is Percy who has always been the individual standing against the dominant mindset.

As shitty as it is for Percy to tell his father he's an embarassment to him at the Ministry and holding him back, I think Percy's view of his father's place at work is pretty accurate. Arthur, imo, is clearly one of those guys at a job who isn't incompetant but always does things guaranteed to keep him from ever really succeeding. There's a reason he gets little respect at the Ministry and it's not because Arthur is the sole voice of truth amongst lying beaurocrats. This doesn't make Percy better than him, by any means, since Percy obviously has his own problems as a worker, but I can see why Percy focuses in on Arthur's problems here and allies himself with Fudge. He needs to be validated this way: the behavior he never liked in his father really is the cause of many family problems. If his father had just buckled down he'd be more respected and have more money etc.

Percy gets pleasure out of following the rules and being rewarded for it. So does Hermione. But Hermione knows when the rules should be broken. Well, Hermione's also an only child and thus probably always got the praise she sought by being a good girl. Ron and Harry inspire her to be more relaxed about her perfectionist side without completely belittling it. Sure Ron teases her but he also often admits she's right. Hermione's got a positive incentive to change. Percy, otoh, spends his whole life defining himself against his family and earning himself more and more jokes. It's no wonder that when he gets to the Ministry he's thrilled to find a father figure who appears to value the very things Percy does, and the things at which Percy excels. This is the place where Percy is told that it is other people who have been wrong all this time, that of course everyone should try to live up to the kind of standards Percy sets for himself. The kind of behavior adored at his house is looked down on by the Ministry.

I think in Percy's rejection of his family we're also seeing 19 years of bitterness at being made to feel an outcast and undervalued, even if it was unintentional. Not that it always was unintentional. Maybe I'm forgetting my canon but I can't honestly think of any time Percy's goals and achievements were genuinely praised by his family. Even Molly's praise may have rung hollow for Percy when she lauded him for making prefect but still seemed to show more affection for the twins. I'm not blaming Molly for Percy's betrayal or anything, just saying that I can see why Percy would be an easy pawn for someone like Fudge. He, unlike Hermione, doesn't really have the ability to tell a good role model from a bad. He's still caught up in finding people who validate him. His family has really never shown signs of meeting him halfway on this, the way Ron and Harry meet Hermione halfway.





So where does Sirius fit into this? Well, when he talks about his family he says he hated them all, and all their thinking being a Black made you royalty. He describes Regulus as "the good son" who was younger than Sirius but obviously more in line with the family. Sirius bitterly tells us his family never missed a chance to tell him Regulus was superior. I don't believe this was because Regulus was always a racist and Sirius came out of the womb preaching tolerance. No, it would have to be much primal than that. I think Sirius' personality put him at odds with his family early on, just as Percy's did with his family. He responded like Percy, standing his ground and becoming more and more "the other." Regulus appears to have fit in with his family more easily by temperment, but also probably saw a great way to gain more positive attention by fitting in the way Sirius didn't. In the end anything Sirius' family believed became something to be despised and like Percy, he found an alternate family who took him in and praised him for all the things he was.

Sirius is correct in thinking being a Black does not make one royalty, but the thing about Sirius is that in many ways he felt like he wasn't a Black. He was...err...the white sheep of the family. His feelings about racial purity are all bound up in that, imo. When he's trying to burn everything in his dreadful house I didn't get the sense of a person who was sad or disgusted by his family's beliefs but had made peace with himself on the matter. He still hated them with the same kind of bitterness that I saw in Percy. Percy sends back his mother's sweater, Sirius wants to burn his mother's favorite possessions. I see more than anything a personal anger here at his family, a desire to run away from the place he was made to hate himself and what he was, not someone who simply holds different values from his family or thinks their values are abhorant.

Sirius still also seems to be bitter about Regulus, even though he appears to have come around somewhat to Sirius' pov. According to Sirius Regulus was his "idiot brother" who was nonethless always considered better than himself. He was "soft enough" to believe this racial superiority crap, got praised for joining up with Voldemort, didn't have the guts to go all the way and was picked off. I found this story incredibly sad, but it's almost hard to believe Sirius is talking about his brother. Surely growing up they must have had some relationship? If they did Sirius has burned that along with everything else. Regulus sounds like no more to Sirius than Dudley is to Harry. (Interesting too that this is the first book where Harry is described as "burning with jealousy" watching Dudley on a new tricycle. Jealousy fuels Snape's hatred of James as well, and, I suspect, Draco's hatred of Harry.)

When Sirius talks about his family, I worry about whether his description is accurate. He makes jokes about them promoting laws that make Muggle-hunting legal and beheading house-elves which, in a world where death is clearly real, makes them almost comic-book monsters. (Though if he's talking about ancestors hundreds of years ago of course they sound barbaric.) But are we just getting Sirius' intentionally comic-book version of his family? Kreacher appears to love the Blacks enough to carry on their beliefs after they're gone. Draco, imo, also loves his parents. As for the rest of the family, I wonder how close they are. Sirius puts down the idea of marrying into this small a gene pool but I found myself intrigued by it at the same time. We're not talking about DEs or Voldemort here, but one rather small family with centuries of secrets and history. A family that holds family above all else and sees itself dying off. I can't help but think there is value there. Not in the racist attitudes, but in the families and their histories and secrets and knowledge. I've always felt like in rejecting Slytherin the WW was sort of rejecting its own past since Slytherin appeared to have the most ties to a time when the WW was younger. But just as Slytherin is too tied to its past and causing its own destruction by insisting on Purebloodedness, so too are the other houses perhaps throwing away something of value in rejecting it. As the hat said, the loss of Slytherin may have stopped immediate fighting, but the school can never ben truly whole without it. Whatever he thinks, Sirius is a Black in ways he's simply not willing to admit. Had he accepted both sides of himself he might have survived OotP. Alas, we'll never know.

This, btw, is yet another reason that Slytherin must be redeemed through Draco, imo. Sirius is Harry's family but like it or not, he is also Draco's family. Draco is the representative of Harry's generation on that family tree.

p.s. Remember when Slytherin was the ambitious house? Now it seems like the House of History. Think the Slyths manage to stay awake for Binns' class?



I have not yet written a post on Draco in OotP, particularly with regards to H/D. I think that might be next for me...Yes, my Little Dragon. Soon....
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From: [identity profile] shusu.livejournal.com

babble.


Big thumbs up on the Good Sons... but am too snarfled to comment coherently on it. ^^;;

Your point about family history though, I can sink my teeth into that. I got a pang watching the little pictures of the Blacks getting agitated as he smashed their picture frames. Playing a Slytherin in an RPG, I've found us to be much more family-obsessed than the other three Houses. It's *frustrating*. Hogwarts is a microcosm of the rest of Wizarding Britain... these are the ties which stay with you into adulthood. Characters in the other Houses think nothing of messing up others' reputation, thinking it a temporary effect; Slytherins OTOH realize that anything which happens in school, in the open, is reported to the parents. You should see the retaliation for small infractions... that feeling that it is Not That Simple, We Belong to a Larger Network. But to us, those infractions are violations of a kind of social order and centuries of tradition and family pride.

True, that's an artificial set-up, but even given vague rules we can all feel the social pressure of being a Slytherin. And I think that holds true for the books too. Lots of Harry's conflicts with Draco seem to start because he's unaware of the costs of Draco's humiliations. I find myself thinking of the movie, when Draco wiped out on the pitch, and there was a shot of Lucius tutting with disappointment.

At the same time, it bears noting that Tonks and Draco are in the same generation... both are losing out by not knowing each other, IMO. Even that little bit about Tonks not knowing her mother's cleaning spells. I think that's the saddest part of losing that person, as that's another generational record down the drain.
ext_6866: (Looking out to sea)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com

Re: babble.


Oh, I totally agree on that view of Slytherin. It's sometimes considered a fanon cliche but I'm glad we got it confirmed in canon. I've always thought there needed to be a real compromise between the two extremes.

I mean, I have always felt like the good side doesn't just put less emphasis on family they would be happy to see the old families (meaning people who value that) wiped out and they've not far to go.
ext_1774: butterfly against blue background (bleeding - by marysiak)

From: [identity profile] butterfly.livejournal.com


Loved seeing a more sympathetic read on Percy. I didn't hate him at all in the book. I wasn't even very surprised at the extremes he went to. And his letter to Ron - in certain light, it's him asking just one member of his family to value the rules as he does.

And the Sirus connection was very interesting.
ext_6866: (Magpie on a rock)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Yeah, he really isn't trying to cut himself from being a Weasley--it's not like he's ashamed of where he comes from or anything. He just probably spent a lot of time seeing his family do things that he felt made things difficult for themselves.

From: [identity profile] slinkhard.livejournal.com


I should just get an automatic replier for your posts because I seem to be typing the same thing multiple times: I complete agree!
Percy's always been my favourite Weasley sibling, because in such a tight-knit family, he seems the most unhappy? Lonely?
He has a point regarding Arthur: he's clearly not ambitious (a reason why I hope he doesn't eventually become Minister, as is speculated by some) and frankly the Weasley's money troubles are a little self-inflicted: Molly doesn't seem to work, when they get money (their lottery win in PoA, etc.) they blow it...it must be frustrating when you're the opposite, to grow up with such a strong family image (the Weasleys being so well known in the Wizarding world for their 'red hair and more children than they can afford' when you're nothing like them.
Hermione seems very different to Percy because she has almost no canonical family image - she mentions her parents far less than Draco for example, despite having a much larger role; she happily embraces her Magical heritage with no regrets and never seems to mention anything Muggle again. It's almost spooky.
I was shocked at how bitter his family seemed towards him, but also how unsuprised they were. It seems to be yet another case in the Potterverse of people turning out how they're treated - Percy is mocked far more than his siblings (Fred and George have shown cruelty, imo, to both Ron and Ginny, but they're clearly closer to both, so it appears more affectionate), his opinions and choices (which, like Malfoy's, may or may not be wrong, but in both cases are opinions they have a right to hold) are disregarded and mocked and they're suprised when he shows no loyalty to them? What have they done to earn it? In Percy's view, Fudge shows him more respect and faith in him by giving him such an important position.
I see a lot of similarities in Draco and Percy (perhaps because of my rather Draco-centric view;) and I'm suprised given Percy's canonical ambition that he wasn't sorted into Slytherin.
They're both desperate to impress, to earn admiration and though they keep it well hidden, I have no doubt that like all humans they want love.
(ooh, Draco/Percy slash ;)
I was quite touched by Percy's letter - he sent back the sweater, but he still wants to keep in contact with Ron (I haven't forgotten how worried he was during the Triwizard Tournament), and he wants Ron to be safe, etc. He's just going about it the wrong way. People who haven't had many friends don't really understand loyalty (makes me wonder why Harry has fairly bump-free friendships, so far.)

As for Sirius - if his family had had the same personalities - obviously militant in their beliefs, but instead had been 'preaching tolerance', I have no doubt he would have rebelled by hating Muggleborns. It seems his 'white' sheepness began as more to do with a personal attack on his family than belief in the cause.
I was suprised by the burning of his family's things, as I can't imagine thinking to do that. He could have been a little more constructive and gave them to charity or a museum, or even his remaining family (or even just let Kreacher keep them in his room), but to burn them?

And his lack of feeling for Regulus as compares to Harry's of Dudley? Harry and the Dursley's relationship was one of the few parts of this book I enjoyed. His teasing of Dudley seemed almost affectionate, and Dudley has clearly learnt a little self-restraint (although chillingly, only because of the threats his cousin hangs over his head.)
And Petunia's ultimate bottom line being that she may hate Harry (incomprehensible when he was a baby, but I could see how when only his sullen, sarcastic side is shown, as has always appeared with his interactions with the Dursley's; one may grow to dislike him), and his parents, but she doesn't want to be the cause of his death is much more humanity than we've seen from them before.
(I knew it! I said and said and said pre-OotP that there's more to them, simply because if you live with people for 11 years or so, there has to be some small positive feeling on either sad, or they'll all be in the loony bin.)

ext_6866: (Hope)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


He has a point regarding Arthur: he's clearly not ambitious (a reason why I hope he doesn't eventually become Minister, as is speculated by some) and frankly the Weasley's money troubles are a little self-inflicted:

Oh yes, definitely. You have that many kids on a small salary and of course you're going to struggle. I worry about the Arthur as Minister as well. Not because he's a horrible person or anything but because it goes back to that whole cult of Harry type thing. Like all his friends need to be running everything.

It is spooky how Hermione is so cut off from her parents! She even cuts vacations short...you have to wonder if they're hurt. Also the school seems to keep things from Muggle parents, which is a little strange. So when Hermione's in the infirmary they aren't told...?

It seems to be yet another case in the Potterverse of people turning out how they're treated -

Yes, there are really very few variations of personality that are allowed in this place before you become The Enemy. The DA is talked about like it's an interhouse thing but really it was more like well, all about Harry.

I see a lot of similarities in Draco and Percy (perhaps because of my rather Draco-centric view;) and I'm suprised given Percy's canonical ambition that he wasn't sorted into Slytherin.

Though have you noticed that even "ambition" seems too good for Slytherin nowadays? Now they're the Pureblood house who is cunning, despite rarely managing to be deceptive at all. Was Tom Riddle the last one?

People who haven't had many friends don't really understand loyalty (makes me wonder why Harry has fairly bump-free friendships, so far.)

In this book, unfortunately, it appeared his relationships were bump-free because his friends knew their place. When Seamus gave the slightest trouble he was cut off until he was ready to be a good soldier in Harry's army again. This is part of why I hate it when JKR acts like Draco is bad because he wanted to be friends with TBWL. People would have treated him totally differently in this book if he'd been anyone else. The only Wizarding Kid who's ever reached out to him as just a regular boy was Draco.

I was suprised by the burning of his family's things,

Oh god, me too! Who would do that? It's like we've talked about with the Raids, for all the talk about the massive wipe-outs Voldemort will certainly enact the good guys can't wait to do their own bonfires of Pureblood things! You're totally right about Harry and Dudley, btw. Harry seemed much more like Dudley's brother than ever before--they're kind of both bad kids of different types now. Loved his "Big D" jokes, especially. But then Dudley is okay now, because remember he's not a Slytherin and therefore has a soul. So what if the Dursleys didn't feed Harry for 11 years? At least their ties aren't green!

From: [identity profile] slinkhard.livejournal.com

Re:


I think someone wrote a fic (remind me sometime, I'll look it up) at FA about how cut off Muggleborn students become from their 'previous' lives. Spooky.
Well, Hogwarts didn't even tell the Weasleys when Ginny was taken into the Chamber, as far as I remember. They only got them there afterwards.
Oh yeah, Slytherins are now purebloods, Ravenclaw smartarses, Gryffindor an overwhelmingly majority apparently, what with Hagrid, Dumbledore, McGonagall, the Marauders, the Trio...And poor Hufflepuff the leftovers. (That verse in the song about Helga taking what was left and treating them all the same actually made me respect her as my favourite founder - Gryf and Slyth seem to be typical blokes, monopolising the attention and in-fighting and since almost nothing is known of Ravenclaw...)
I don't know if you've ever watched Buffy The Vampire Slayer (the tv series) but there are a lot of similiar themes (that were never addressed)about her friends basically putting up with shitty behaviour because she was the Hero and the Slayer; and about how no-one could possibly understand the huge burden it was.
Ah, Dudley is ok because he's a Muggle, and since all our Gryffindor buddies support Muggles and their rights, despite the fact that canonically only Harry and Hermione have ever even met any and their relationships with them seem cold at best.
As for Draco being bad because of wanting to befriend TBWL, I posted this at Ivyblossom's lj earlier: http://www.livejournal.com/users/ivyblossom/335500.html?thread=3405964

From: [identity profile] slinkhard.livejournal.com


Wow, I didn't know there was a limit on how much one can reply *blushes*. Much apologies for all this spam.
Continued from above:
You're right - the WW is too keen to erase it's history when to forget both the mistakes and the wisdom of the past is a very dangerous thing to do - obviously Muggle and Mudblood hatred was more prevalent in the past; but this generation seem intent on swinging the opposite way in Pureblood and Slytherin hatred, ultimately making the same mistake which is 'BLOOD DOESN'T MATTER.'
The purebloods seem intent on remembering their family histories, and keeping traditions alive, in the face of dying out.
One thing that creeped me in the rather simplistic 'Chamber of Secrets', which I believe we've discussed before, is Draco and Lucius' mentions of the raids on their home.
Considering that it had been twelve years or so since any attacks that we know of, and that what had happened in PS was probably not widely known, the fact that Aurors were 'raiding' is odd.
Lucius Malfoy was at that time, still considered in the eyes of the law to be innocent of any crime, due to being 'under the Imperius curse', and this excuse was obviously enough to pacify whoever was in charge then.
Adding to this the fact that Fudge was probably in power during CoS, and he seems if not a friend of Lucius' but at least an associate (gifting the Malfoy's with tickets as thanks for their 'generous donations' to worthy causes), why is he allowing/ordering raids on the private property of a man considered innocent of crimes that are over a decade old? Is he powerless to stop this?
And there's the fact that the Malfoys are considered Dark Wizards, despite the fact Draco would have been a baby during Voldemort's reign, and Narcissa, although we are unclear on her role and whether or not she's 'evil', isn't a Death Eater.

Can't wait for your Draco post.


ext_6866: (Marching Magpie)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


And there's the fact that the Malfoys are considered Dark Wizards, despite the fact Draco would have been a baby during Voldemort's reign, and Narcissa, although we are unclear on her role and whether or not she's 'evil', isn't a Death Eater.

Yeah, not to mention Draco has never shown much in the way of Dark Magic either. Fanfic naturally imagines him being trained in the Dark Arts as a kid, we're told Snape knew a million hexes when he got to school but Draco...the only thing I remember him doing in the whole book was a tripping charm. Where is all this Dark Magic that supposedly makes him dangerous enough that he should have been drowned at birth?

From: [identity profile] slinkhard.livejournal.com

Re:


Well precisely. You'd think with a kid with such a short temper, he'd be tempted to fire off some off these Dark curses, but he never even attacks first.
Hermione slaps him...nothing. Harry beats him up (I'm not clear on whether or not they can perform wandless magic, but surely a kid with as much pride as Draco could have fought a little harder physically if not magically)...nothing.
And if he's not talented magically or physically, which I doubt (he obviously handles Potions ok, and if one plays sports regularly, they must have a certain amount of physical strength no matter how small they are); there's nothing to stop him getting Crabbe and Goyle to beat someone up, but he never asks/tells them. (Speaking of them, wasn't it sweet when Crabbe throws a bludger because Draco didn't get the Snitch. I'd hoped they'd make the team...maybe next book they could have an entire line *gasp*)

From: [identity profile] skylark97.livejournal.com


Loved this. Totally agree on Percy. I'll probably go a step farther on parts though and say that Molly's preaching on the path he's taken has probably pitted the other kids against Percy as well. Percy wants to be the "good son", but in being that, he garners the resentment of all the ones younger than him who are constantly told that they could stand to be a bit more like Percy in their goals and their behavior. And in that respect, I do often think that the twins make very personal attacks on him. (That whole sending dragon dung to him...that wasn't funny to me at all.)

And I like the comparisons you drew about the dynamics between the odd ducks and their families, because that really seems to ring true.

This is the place where Percy is told that it is other people who have been wrong all this time, that of course everyone should try to live up to the kind of standards Percy sets for himself.

If you don't feel valued and loved at home, you'll go looking for people to love and value you out in the world, and it just makes you easy prey. Percy, at times, strikes me as someone who is very insecure. Rules give him strict guidelines for his behavior and puts him in a world that seems black and white. And his constant boasting and arrogance seem like symptoms of that insecurity. I dunno, I understand his anger and his frustration with his family and I sympathize with him. And as conservative as he might be, he's still as much a rebel to me as Sirius is.

...can I add you to my friendslist?
ext_6866: (Cousins)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Thanks--and yes, friend away. Glad to have you!

I think I wrote this soon after OotP came out and it still seems like a really important think to think about. Especially since I re-read the scene in OotP where Ron is explaining exactly how Percy came to walk out on his family and Arthur sounds really hurtful. After a lifetime of having his achievements mocked you can just see how he'd react to having this turned into, "Oh, Percy's just an idiot again." And once he's gone it really does seem like there's plenty of real resentment and anger there. They frankly seem to cut him out of the family not that differently than the way the Blacks cut out Sirius.

I can't help but see Percy as definitely looking for a good person to be his mentor. It's a shame this makes him vulnerable, but at the same time I think he's probably got it in him to eventually make the hard but right choice, you know? I hate the way he'll probably be punished for having strayed from the path at all, but ultimately I think he's got the potential to be a better man than his brothers.
ext_18328: (Default)

From: [identity profile] jazzypom.livejournal.com

Hmmm...


I do agree with you that fandom seems to give the Percy character a hard time, and the fact that Percy and Sirius do have some sort of similiar traits - that sort of arrogance for them to distance themselves from their families. That takes a sort of bravery from both men than people don't readily accept or appreciate.

Well, Molly is a vulgar harpy (just like Mrs. Black, it seems) and if I were Percy, I would have left home too.

In terms of Sirius burning his family heirlooms - I think in many ways, Sirius has suffered from being a Black, and being locked up in that house and having nothing to do (but clean! tsk! I hate Dumbledore) made him start to burn stuff. It was something to do. Also, he hasn't really made peace with himself or what he could have been since he was locked up for twelve years.

Back to Percy - I thought that his letter to Ron, although filled with concern - came off as a bit Pompous though.

But hey, the guy is nineteen and will grow out it- if he doesn't go to Azkaban. ;)



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