Highs and lows

[sistermagpie]

I feel like last weekend lasted a lifetime...kind of like in the Narnia books when the kids reign for years then find themselves back at their Uncle's house. A whole weekend in Middle Earth--hurray! It was more fun than I'd ever thought it'd be.



I made it through all three movies without bathroom breaks (individually, of course--took breaks in between). It wasn't easy realizing I had to go really badly when they hadn't even left the Shire yet. I can't see movies in the morning. Anyway, it's a whole new experience seeing the EEs altogether. You can really see how they're all one movie. The stuff with Boromir was especially effective seen back to back, where he falls and then you see the flashback to him with his father and brother.

Another thing that struck me hard this time is how in the EE there's that scene with Aragorn at his mother's grave. Elrond talks about who he really is and Aragorn says he doesn't want that power, he's never wanted it. He refuses the sword, basically. Then it cuts to Bilbo and Frodo. There's something so neat about how this pint-sized surrogate father and son show up the bigger versions. Frodo's far less able to carry a sword and Bilbo far less able to give him good advice about it, but Frodo still tries to do his best and Bilbo earnestly tries to send him off prepared. The Bilbo/Frodo scene would probably be considered unimportant in terms of history to people in ME, but really they were more important than anything. The juxtoposition of the two fathers and surrogate orphan sons was really moving to me.

In between the movies I first went to lunch with sleeplessmarea and then hung out with oselle, ramalama, cateressea and others from KD.

The Q&A after ROTK was lovely with Elijah, Sean, Andy and Bernard Hill. Of course, these things are always vaguely irritating because the worst people tend to get picked to ask questions and waste them on Tom Bombadil and what the actors are doing next, like the first hasn't been answered a million times and was obvious to begin with, and the second is something you're going to find out anyway. Marea asked the good question of which lines were favorites of the actors and got just the right responses:

Sean: I can't carry it for you...

Elijah: We set out to save the Shire...

Andy: He seemed to have a Gollum one he claimed everyone knew, but said he thought the most important Gollum line was Gandalf's about many who live deserving death.

Bernard: I know your face. ("YESSSS!")

PJ didn't give a line but a shot of Frodo crawling up the mountain. Also another one I can't remember now...

Oh yes, and the question about what Frodo's little nod at the end meant was surprisingly heartbreaking just to hear it said. PJ said he thought Frodo was saying, "Thank you," and Elijah said he was saying, "You're going to be okay without me." WAAA!

In bed that night I realized, "Damn, my arse is killing me!" It got quite a workout.



It's nice for PJ to be able to talk about his work and career instead of patiently explaining how he's not a book author. His stories about creating movies with no money and no film industry were truly inspiring. This is what art is all about, imo. No wonder so many people want to put him down when he admits to the Garden Party sketch in Monty Python being a major influence on his life, but I love him for it.

The surprise gift was the actors coming back, especially when the satellite feed went out and they shared highlights of the gag reel. If I could choose one thing to see for myself I think it might be Sean Astin doing a commercial for Gillette: "Hobbits can't grow facial hair. But actors can. I'm Sean Astin, Sam Gamgee from LOTR. For a shave that's hobbit-close, even on the slopes of Mount Doom, I use Gillette."

Had a truly great dinner after the Q&A where I think I may have talked the ears off of everyone within twenty feet, but I couldn't help myself.

Then, the bad part. Well, it's my own fault. Never go to TORC's Movies forum if you want to avoid annoyance. There was this thread about Sean Astin not liking the take PJ used for his "I can't carry you" line which inspired a number of people to paint SA as a jerk. In response some random people decided to defend him by praising his honesty over the slick Hollywood-player fake that is Elijah Wood.

Anyway, this got me thinking about Elijah Wood (after I told them to SHUT UP! of course). I usually try really really hard to remind myself that the image of any actor I might have is not the actor himself, so I always feel hypocritical about expounding on the character of one as I see it. But I still do it, just like we all do. Even when I don't care about an actor I have a persona for him, thanks to the press. This criticism of Elijah made me think about what I associate with his persona and also what I think the negative description of him says about modern values. Yeah, I know it sounds ridiculous but it interested me!



So these guys' problems with Elijah was they felt he only spoke in publicist approved soundbites, that he was slick, a player who gave "answerless answers." Now on one level I think that's just not true, that even seeing him this weekend he seemed to genuinely try to give questions worthy answers no matter how often he'd heard them. But on another level I thought this person probably was reacting to something real that influences the way he handles publicity as opposed to how other people do. He does seem very adept at handling situations diplomatically, not letting reporters put words in his mouth but also not revealing more than he wants to reveal. People probably would have a tough time getting him to criticize someone else in print (he was totally confused when his comments about Jim Carrey were mistaken for insults at the Q&). He does seem like somebody who isn't naturally forthcoming about their deepest thoughts--I think Sean said as much in print. He seems like he naturally prefers peace and saves his passion for things like music and movies. Obviously I relate to that, I tend to be the same way. Maybe I'm projecting. But he does seem that way.

I realized that what was described by some people as "shallowness" as the result of a Hollywood upbringing, I also saw, only in a positive way. There are plenty of examples of how being a child actor can have disastrous effects on people, but I really don't think it's inherently a bad thing. Obviously any kid who acts is doing it because his parent wants it--no kid is driving themselves to agents etc. But I think kids can enjoy it and benefit from it by learning of a work ethic, a skill, a professional attitude. More than once I've thought how much easier my life would have been if I'd been a child actor whose Burger King ad paid off the student loans I struggle with now. I think we put far too much importance on the idea of a "normal childhood" as if any kid who doesn't live in the suburbs and play soccer is deprived. As I think EJW himself said, what did he miss? Being beaten up in jr. high? Cliques? Who wants that?

I remember Jodie Foster once being asked if she didn't feel cheated for "not having a childhood." She said, "I did have a childhood." I love her for that. Just because her childhood wasn't typical doesn't mean it wasn't valid. I remember a producer once telling me about a meeting with her. He said she was very professional and interested in what he had to say, but not interested in the project he was pitching. He said it was just clear within minutes that this was a woman one could not manipulate or get around. She knew what she was doing. She wasn't intimidating, but she clearly was not anybody to be messed with.

So what does this have to do with EJW? I think he may, underneath, have that same savvy learned from years in the business. His natural instinct to be diplomatic is a very real skill. It was probably there to begin with--I wouldn't be surprised if his behavior at home was much like his behavior on the LOTR set, for instance. But I don't think he's as naive as some people make him out to be because he is young and goofy. I think he's seen a lot of nastiness first-hand as a child actor and has learned how to tell people who wish him well from those who want something. I think I admire this idea in my head of a child learning clever forms of self-protection and evasion. A person I know who has worked with him a little and was specifically admiring of how he was, in her pov, genuinely sincere, yet able to handle sticky situations like a seasoned diplomat three times his age.

And what does this have to do with modern values? Well, I just thought it was weird the way Sean's "honesty" was held up as better by these people (though that honesty got him branded a jerk by others so you can't win either way). It struck me as interesting that what was drawing suspicion was essentially that Elijah seemed polite and socially sophisticated. I mean, aren't these the kinds of skills adults are supposed to have in society, the ability to give answerless answers when that's what's required? To not let everyone know what you're thinking all the time? To put others at ease? To me his instincts seem to be ones that years ago would be encouraged without a second thought. What I also think is odd is the assumption that if he isn't complaining or snarking about something he's hiding something. Like he can't just be more focused on positive things. I remember somebody once accusing me of this--that I must obviously be covering up the "real me" because I was basically easy-going. That seems like an idea I see all over the place--that the person who is overbearing, blunt or rude is somehow more genuine than the person who instinctively tries to create a peaceful atmosphere around himself. I feel that's ridiculous.

p.s. From today's post:

"Check out this item from the Post: FRODO is now the Lord of the G-strings. Elijah Wood and his "Rings" co-star, Billy Boyd, hit East 60th Street mammary mecca Scores at 2 a.m. Tuesday with two horny hobbits and, says our witness, "They didn't leave until the lights went on." Wood and company tossed back Heinekens and were surrounded by about a dozen topless dancers. When one exceptionally cute waitress named Nicole grabbed Wood's eye, he invited her to sit down with him, saying, "You're really pretty." He finally rolled out at 4:30."

Well, he is pretty.

Comments

hope this makes sense, 'cause I'm going on five hours of sleep

[shusu.livejournal.com]

Last bit: sudden thought-flash of "regency romances." Social conventions are so unconventional these days 'cause they don't exist or are tamped down. You can learn class... and/or you can be classy. I think it's harder to gauge "genuine" in a society that has no rules for disclosure and euphemism and intimacy, 'cause you don't know where the taboos are till you meet the person or group of people.

Hollywood? I'm sure it has different grades of slick that would baffle your average joe.

Americans in general are fond of plain-speaking, however brash. I think, hence the "ugly" qualification when we go elsewhere. Culture shock that there's a 'way' of doing things, because for the most part urban America doesn't have just one way.

Re: hope this makes sense, 'cause I'm going on five hours of sleep

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

[I]I think it's harder to gauge "genuine" in a society that has no rules for disclosure and euphemism and intimacy, 'cause you don't know where the taboos are till you meet the person or group of people.[/I]

Wow-that is such a good point. This kind of situation really brings it out as well. By some standards personal revelation is a faux pas, but celebrities in general tend to be adored when they parade their problems in front of everyone. Sometimes the more private they are the more stuck-up they're assumed to be. But the same people who resent private celebrities might be totally uncomfortable revealing those kinds of things about themselves, or having other people reveal things like that to them.

[anamirza.livejournal.com]

The cynical side of me feels that perhaps the aversion to diplomatic and publicly careful actors is due to our country's penchant for scandal and gossip. Or at best, due to people's desire to feel 'on the inside' (and thus close to the actor/world of movies) despite the statistical impossibility of this desire being truly fulfilled.

The less cynical side of me realises that people who are always careful can be really difficult to depend on. My ex-advisor was one of those. When he said, "Yes, that's a good idea", it was hard to know whether he meant, "Yes, that's a good idea, do that." or "I don't like that idea and if you ask me about it tomorrow, I will pretend never to have heard of it, but perhaps you will be too discouraged if I actually admit to that, so I will just let you go ahead and waste your entire afternoon." Though the ex-advisor did seem to be having some serious memory problems, so maybe I am attributing intent where none exists. Or perhaps he just really didn't care and was paying no attention whatsoever and said the first thing that popped into his mind. On balance, the last is most likely, I suppose.

Though it is not just the horrific ex-advisor. Some - but not all - of the very cautious and very diplomatic people I've known have turned out to be pretty undependable as friends. But then perhaps the difference is when people are privately cautious as well as publicly cautious. Public caution and diplomacy seems to me to be very practical, very good at promoting harmony, and that seems like a very good thing. People who are privately cautious perhaps lack trust, or perhaps simply don't want to connect with other people much. It's hard for me to say. I don't like to be rude, but I find it difficult to be truly diplomatic - the best I can hope for in difficult situations is apparently silence. :)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Excellent point--yes, I don't want to confuse diplomacy with the inability to make a decision, or with just plain wishy-washiness.

I have to admit a lot of what you are talking about is true. There are times when I'd love to deal with sticky things by pretending I'd never heard of it before! But of course that wouldn't be diplomacy so much as lying.

In this case, well, I'm talking about a stranger so I can't say how it goes one way or the other. The person who did know him was making the distinction that privately he presumably was honest--or at least not dishonest. So she felt in speaking with him that he treated her very differently from this stranger who was being pushy. With your advisor it sounds like you're dealing with somebody who was just not capable of doing the job he was supposed to do. It's one thing to put off the telemarketer, another thing to string along somebody who's depending on you for something.

In fact, I'd say that your going for silence is a form of diplomacy, at least I think it is. There's plenty of times I can't bring myself to seem to be endorsing something I don't agree with, but I might not feel the need to argue with it if it's not really appropriate. Like if a bunch of people were talking about a movie they loved and I hated it, I don't think I would lie and pretend I liked it, but I'd confine myself to comments that were true.

The odd thing about this conversation about these two actors was that the people who viewed them negatively were all people who had never met them, and the people feeling their judgements were unfair had all met them. Of course, meeting a celebrity is not the same as knowing them. It's possible people can be so bowled over by the celebrity just smiling at them they're ready to hand them their life. But in general I think people base their impressions on the same thing they would with anyone else--was ther person courteous to me, were they a reasonable customer, things like that...

[ramalama.livejournal.com]

Hey, I had a great time at dinner with you and your pal. It's nice to be with people who know what they are talking about. Still wincing how your friend's observation of the fans there as calm and rational degenerated into a primer on the fandom's nutjobs. :p

I never had time to get involved at TORc and I keep hearing that is for the best. I don't get how people can be so critical of people they don't know. If I ever got to meet Elwood, one of the things I would do is tell him to thank his mother for me, because she did one hell of a job raising a fine human being in a tough situation (not only in Hollywood but without a dad as well).

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Still wincing how your friend's observation of the fans there as calm and rational degenerated into a primer on the fandom's nutjobs.

LOL! That was pretty funny, wasn't it? Still, maybe owing to how hard it was to get into this thing and how expensive, people were generally well-behaved.

If I ever got to meet Elwood, one of the things I would do is tell him to thank his mother for me, because she did one hell of a job raising a fine human being in a tough situation (not only in Hollywood but without a dad as well).

That's the way I feel about it too. I mean, compare him to somebody like Corey Feldman who had pariahs for parents. Funny thing is one time I wondered about what question I would actually want to know of Elwood and I thought it would probably be what Macauley Culkin's father seemed like to him as a kid. Luckily, he was asked this question: He thought he was a scary man at 13. No doubt he appreciates his own mother.

Criticism from the peanut gallery about Sean and Elijah

[sleeplessmarea.livejournal.com]

Magpie - So you probably read my wordy rant on TORC... which after I posted made me ask myself... why bother? Did I really think I would change people's opinions? And do I believe myself to have a unique insight into either Mr's Astin and Wood that would allow me to effectively rebut those inconsistently negative and ill informed opinions? (My answer to both questions would be "no")

So it was kind of pointless to go on for paragraphs citing information which contradicts the points those people raised... because I believe that mere information is not what all that is about.

Believing either ill or well of a person that one knows only by reputation says a lot more about you than it does about them. It is less about the truth behind thefacts than it is a litmus test for one's own personal worldview. Some of those posters obviously saw and or read of smooth and poised behavior on the part of EJW, and "slick" and "phoney" kicked in as an assessment of his character. Others, like me, read, saw and personally experienced numerous incidents of good manners and thoughtfulness and concluded "guy was raised right... not egotistical, cares about people...effortlessly polite".

The same goes for Sean Astin, who can be described as "passionate and enthused" or "overbearing and obnoxious" depending on lots of things, like factoring in the CONTEXT of the behavior, whether it expressed seriously or part tongue in cheek, and actually what prompted the behavior.

I agree that anyone you do not know well can only be guessed about.... educatedly guessed perhaps, but without true certainty.... because we outsiders have either limited or no ability to see the context the behavior comes from.... we can't check behavior in a public (or semi-public) setting against behavior among close family and friends... or be certain as to state of mind, motivation, hidden agenda. We can suppose, we can deduce... we can never absolutely KNOW.

But how, exactly is this different than the situation in place with any new acquaintence, or in finding rapport with another at a wedding reception or a cocktail party? Are we really THAT much more able to gain insight on a blind date or the first day of a new job? And yet it is in our human nature to try to delve into the puzzle that is the human heart and mind and come up with conclusions... and that is exactly what happens once you know a lot about a celebrity and are intruiged hy him/her.

And - what's more - I don't consider this a BAD thing, so long as you don't use what you glean to create a distorted perspective. Or to post negative, poorly researched and mean spirited things in places like TORC.

Enough people have met Astin and Wood and have NOTHING bad to say to them (on the contrary.... LOTS good). Some people who have met them (myself included) get a strong, POSITIVE vibe about them. Sooo, why not just assume this is it... that somehow Astin and Wood leave many of the people they have encountered during their walk of life singing their praises with genuine affection (myself included).

What is it about human beings that compels some to pull down those upon a pedestal, while others are building up? A lot of wisdowm may be gleaned from THAT!

Re: Criticism from the peanut gallery about Sean and Elijah

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

ITA! Really, I find it fascinating how people react to celebrities, because we don't know them personally, but each celebrity is given a clear persona in the press that does, to some degree, have to do with what they are. A writer on Salon.com wrote about the teen phenomenon that she named celebrity crushes and grudges with respect to Jennifer Lover Hewitt. I loved the article because it was about something I'd been thinking about for a while. She said if you went to the "I Hate JLH" sites they were very much like the "I Love JLH" sites. Both had this detailed information gleaned from interviews, the soundbites, the public bio, the remarks from other people. Only if you liked her it had a good spin and if you didn't it had a bad spin.

She said she felt like the underlying subtext of both sites though was that JLH was an ordinary person and...why was she famous when the people on the site were not? She felt like celebrities in many ways show qualities we could have in ourselves (I'd say they're probably almost like the gods of ancient times that way). If you crush on a celebrity you're probably really saying, "This is who I am." If you hate them you're saying, "This is who I am not." For teenagers especially this is an important thing, because they're at the age when they're asserting their own identities.

I saw that a lot in that thread. You got two clear versions of both these actors connected to the same incidents. Sean was suddenly storming out of things as a natural extension of his tendency to have bold opinions. Elijah was using people for his own ends as a natural extension of his tendency to adapt to whatever the social situation called for. Otoh, to their fans, Sean was somebody standing up against hypocrisy for the same reasons while Elijah was graciously trying to make people feel good. It's fascinating! Though I think we tend to almost expect behavior like Sean's more in stars, though not usually expressed as intelligently.

It's fascinating!

But it is ALL peanut gallery these days!

[sleeplessmarea.livejournal.com]

Yes Magpie... I LOVE what you're saying here and I completely agree with you...

But the thing is... is this REALLY that much different than how people in our current society tend to treat one another... except to the matter of degree?

Aren't many people these days (perhaps because of pop cultural influences) expected to "spin themselves". What are makeovers in preparation for new jobs all about then... and "doing your colors" and, for that matter, you resume?

What is behind the concept of marketing or advertising besides putting up the front that you want people to see and to believe about your car dealership, private woman's school or charity.

And while we're going in that direction...wWhy do people who can't afford it overspend on special events like big weddings and bar mitzvahs and such like except to construct a (probably) inaccurate and highly idealized version of their lifestyle fot he benefit of their "public".... even if their public consists of family and friends.

I may be going rather far afield by saying that... but what I'm going for is just this. Celebrities have professionalized a human tendency that we all have as a means of continuing to be successful and to gain continued employment. There are many ways to skin that cat... and I believe that probably the most accurate read of a celebrity you will ever have will depend on figuring out WHAT that celebrity wants you to think of him/her, and why.

And sSeeing as we are living in the age of the website, the messageboard and the live journal... these concepts are going to apply even more to us REGULAR (non celebrity) folk than they ever have before. I already know of amateur fan fiction writers and website founding geeks that have attained a celebrity status... and this without benefits of good looks or million dollar paychecks.

All this is either very exciting or depressing, depending on your perspective....


I m

Re: But it is ALL peanut gallery these days!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Absolutely! One of the things that fascinates me about the net in general is just this phenomenon. Because you do see celebrities born in fandoms, and what's funny is that it's usually based on totally different criteria than celebrity is other places. Sometimes I think this is a good thing, because you're known by your ideas. But you know, just as often people become known just by putting across an image online by being belligerant or whatever. And people still have just as varied reactions to those people online.

I also totally agree about looking at what the celebrity wants you to see in them. I've always thought it was probably better to become famous after your 20's, because young celebrities sometimes don't know who they are to begin with and start to believe their marketing. And marketing is weird. I knew a guy who had to go for parts as a bodybuilder because he looked like a typical hunk, yet really he was a chemist. He'd never get cast as himself.

But when it comes to interviews I think you can see the way they want to come across to a certain extent. Even Orlando's enthusiasm that got him so teased on the DVD was probably him trying to be helpful and say SOMETHING.

Sean, I think, is a perfect example of somebody who definitely knows what he wants to be. That's probably why he gets so much flack--anytime you have an image people can recognize you're going to get reactions to it. But I do think this is just a natural extention of what we all do in our lives.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

I've only just recently started coming to terms with Frodo-bashing and now I find out there's Elijah-bashing out there? What a load of bullshit.

This guy can't win. He's gracious and diplomatic, so people think he's a Hollywood phony. He's animated and giggly, so people think he's queer. He smokes and uses the dreaded "f" word so the Church Ladies get their knickers in a twist. Fortunately, I'm sure that all of these conflicting opinions belong to a bunch of losers who have nothing better to do than sit around and pass judgement on people they don't know, based on the scantiest of observations. The opinions that matter belong to his peers---those who do know him and work with him---and they never seem to have anything but genuine admiration for him, both as an artist and as a person.

"Publicist approved soundbites?" I wish someone could give me an example. How exactly do these people want Elijah to express himself? Do they want him to be controversial? Edgy? Difficult? Why is it so hard to accept the idea that maybe he is this nice person, and that maybe his enthusiasm and affability are not some slick, carefully studied veneer but his genuine personality? And you know what? Even if that's not his personality, how hard is it to understand that when someone like Elijah is giving an interview he is on the job as much as when he's on set? Do we walk into our workplaces and act like jerks so that people will think we're genuine? If we shared a cubicle with an opinionated loudmouth, would we admire him for being "real?" Why should it be any different for someone in the public eye? I'm not impressed by "difficult" actors; I'm a hell of a lot more impressed by someone like Elijah, who performs all the aspects of his job with grace and professionalism.

I don't think of Elijah as having had a "Hollywood upbringing," given the negative implications of that term. From everything I've heard, he was an energetic and outgoing child who genuinely enjoyed acting and took to it like a duck to water, not some poor waif whose stage mother dragged him reluctantly from one audition to another. Although his parents were divorced, his family life sounds stable and I don't think he missed out on a damn thing by not going to school. I firmly believe that a great deal of Elijah's upbeat attitude comes from the fact that he didn't have a traditional childhood, one that might very well have smothered the spirit out of him as it does to so many of us. Rather, he had a childhood that any of us should envy---a loving, supportive family, the constant opportunity to experience exciting new things and above all, the chance to develop the full potential of his natural talents. I would trade my "normal" childhood for his in a heartbeat.

Harrumph.

Re, the "Scores" thing---when I first read that, I also thought it was the waitress who had told him he was pretty! And how like Elijah just to tell her she was pretty, instead of "Nice tits!" or something like that! Oh, I guess that's him being a slick phony again.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! Yeah--he was clearly being a slick phony in saying she was pretty AND trying to cover up his being gay besides! I'll bet his publicist told him to say that!

I do always think that the proof of how an artist acts is going to be somehow evident in their career. There are some artists, sure, who are probably very difficult in ways that translate to something good onscreen/stage. Really, even if you want to look at Sean as being "difficult" for being neurotic and safety conscious and getting frustrated when people pull his wig off, we're still talking about somebody who's passionate about the work, not himself. He cared about the production, not himself. That leads, legitimately, to him speaking up a lot. But obviously, from what we saw, Sean was not considered anything but a huge asset to the production and a great guy besides. (I'm remember Elijah: "You're so funny, Sean.") Iow, I totally agree with you on the "difficult actor" thing. There's just no reason to be that way. When people act that way it seems to me it's usually the sign of some serious personal problems. Because those of us who work in regular jobs know that it's not THAT difficult to act professionally. Those who don't get fired.

I also agree this description of him as having a Hollywood childhood is completely off. One of the things I really like about him is how he seems so genuinely interested in some of the amazing people he gets to work with. It's beyond me why people think it's a bad thing for a kid to grow up in the company of people like Barry Levinson, Ang Lee and Kevin Kline rather than hoardes of banal schoolteachers and kids. Is it bad he's traveled all over the world? It's just so silly. I went to regular school and I don't look back on it as some island of paradise in my life. I'd take a private tutor in a second, thank you!

If I were him, I'd be feeling pretty lucky that my mom decided to make that trip to California. Again it reminds me a bit of Jodie Foster's mom...I think she once said her mother said her main consideration in choosing parts for her when she was young was that she didn't want her to be in anything she would be embarassed about later. She was in some pretty great things as a kid (Candleshoe is still my favorite, though!!) and has continued, imo, doing movies with that in mind. I think Elijah's got a pretty impressive record too.

[oselle.livejournal.com]

Personally, I think much of the need to cast aspersions on celebrities (when no evidence for such aspersions exists) is based on jealousy. Unless you've achieved a Zen-like level of personal tranquility, it's almost impossible not to be jealous of someone who's had the kind of nearly-charmed life that Elijah Wood has had. It mitigates the jealousy to think, "Oh yeah he's got all that, but he's a (jerk) (fucked-up Hollywood kid) (studio-manipulated phony) (frustrated homosexual) (your favorite epithet here)." I'm sure it's almost unbearable to some people to imagine that he's not any of those things, and that he's a truly sweet, generous and sane person who, on top of everything, is well-aware of his good fortune and deeply grateful for it.

The jealousy must be even worse among Tolkien geeks like those at TORC. I mean, come on...who among them wouldn't have given anything to be a part of these films? And here's this 18-year-old "Hollywood brat" who gets to be the film incarnation of Frodo Baggins for God's sake? Of course people are going to shit on him! Shitting on him allows them to go on with their lives!

It's the same thing with Sean Astin. Trying to make him out into some kind of troublemaker for the incredibly minor things he's done that people haven't agreed with. It's just a device people use to help themselves deal with the fact that Sean has become the Samwise Gamgee for the global filmgoing audience. "Why, he's not Sam," they fume. "He's just some neurotic jerk!" Well, no he's not, but it sure seems to cheer some people up to think that he is.

Ironically, I think the things these actors are criticized or doubted for are exactly what helped them turn in such amazing performances in LoTR---their behavior is evident in their career, as you said. Sean can be a neurotic worrywort, and Sam can be a self-doubting ninnyhammer. Elijah is a private person who is also generous and kind; sure sounds like Frodo. Pretty damn perfect casting, if you ask me.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think you are totally right. I'm also amazed at the way people are so suddenly ready to dismiss Elijah especially like he's some flash in the pan and not somebody who's been working steadily for years. Call me naive because I know it's happened to other people, but I just don't see Elijah being cast as only hobbits for the rest of his life. He's always been in quirky movies playing quirky characters. As long as there's oddballs in movies, he can play them (and he can play plenty else besides). He just seems so interested in projects and other people he can't help but get involved in things, you know? It's Frodo all over again--everybody underestimates the boy.

Ironically, I think the things these actors are criticized or doubted for are exactly what helped them turn in such amazing performances in LoTR---their behavior is evident in their career, as you said. Sean can be a neurotic worrywort, and Sam can be a self-doubting ninnyhammer. Elijah is a private person who is also generous and kind; sure sounds like Frodo. Pretty damn perfect casting, if you ask me.

This is SO TRUE! It's part of why I love listening to the actor's commentaries or watching them together--it's like getting more of the characters. I remember reading how Billy did his audition and when he went to the callback and was congratulated he joked to the casting person, "Is it down to me and 150 other people now, or what?" She said no, five or six. He was shocked, but I think it shows just how much PJ picked out people that "were" the character--and not just physically. In their own ways I think Dom and Billy also just are their characters, especially Billy.

He and Elijah both have that sort of old/young quality to them but in the opposite ways. Like Elijah was a kid playing scenes everybody thought should be beyond him (like that scene in Radio Flyer where he's listening to his brother getting beaten up) and doing it in a surprisingly adult way (it was never weepy little boy stuff). Billy always seems like somebody who's young in that he's generally happy and fun, but there's also a maturity or sadness to him as well. I don't want to psychoanalyze him, but I guess it may have to do with losing his parents so young--he's certainly seen enough sadness in his life. I always thought that came through with Pippin, that he wasn't just a goof. The moments when he turns on the concern he seems like the best friend in the world.

It's funny that these guys are accused of being lucky or jerks or whatever, because I think a lot of them have probably dealt with a lot in their personal life. Sean and Elijah could easily have become the stereotypical Hollywood brats I suppose (and Sean had a bipolar mother as well) and I'll bet there was plenty of trouble Billy could have gotten into in his situation as well. Instead they all just seem to prefer acting!

[westmoon.livejournal.com]

This really reminds me of the good old "DD is an arrogant jerk" days.

*pops an Advil*

It never ceases to amaze me how different people can look at the same set of qualities in a person, or words/actions, and react in such different ways. I guess that's what makes the world an interesting place, but man... I agree - I think it speaks volumes about ourselves when we look at the qualities we profess to admire/despise.

How sad is it when manners and diplomacy are dismissed as slickness? I deal with unprofessional, boorish behaviour all the time, and believe me, there's NOTHING admirable about it. I can think of quite a few so-called A-list actors who grudgingly do PR for their movies, roll their eyes when asked questions, and make it clear that, for them, it's just a job, and they could care less whether audiences get a bang for their buck.

Aside from the total hotness factor (*blush*), what really impresses me about Elijah is his maturity when it comes to work, and total boyish glee about life itself. He seems to know instinctively (most of the time) when certain behaviour is appropriate, and it's a lesson most adults twice his age could stand to learn.

I remember a year ago, when I was just starting to read up on the LOTR actors, coming across an interview done for Macleans magazine. The reporter couldn't stop talking about how NICE and POLITE he was - which says a lot, to be amazed at such a thing - to the point where he hadn't touched his plate of french fries because he said it would have been rude to eat in front of her. My god. He had me in the palm of his hand at that point.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

This really reminds me of the good old "DD is an arrogant jerk" days.

I was THIS CLOSE to saying exactly that. Yes. And there I think you had two actors who had really strong personalities that were totally mirrored in their fans.

How sad is it when manners and diplomacy are dismissed as slickness? I deal with unprofessional, boorish behaviour all the time, and believe me, there's NOTHING admirable about it.

I know! And the weird thing too is that SA is here being compared to these boorish people as well when he seems perfectly professional. Both of them first and foremost are always praising the film, PJ, the cast, each other. As far as celebrities go they're amazingly gracious, yet still inspire this kind of stuff! (And you just have to appreciate Sean's personality too because he's so great to make fun of.)

The reporter couldn't stop talking about how NICE and POLITE he was - which says a lot, to be amazed at such a thing - to the point where he hadn't touched his plate of french fries because he said it would have been rude to eat in front of her.

Exactly--or the reporter who watched in amazement as he bussed his own table after being polite to the waitress. This seems to be one of the first things people notice about him and I'm sure it's not something he has to think about. I think if I had a kid in the business I'd probably make doubly sure to drill these things into him knowing how many people are willing to let it slide.

A salute in honor to ya....

[sleeplessmarea.livejournal.com]

Oselle... Magpie...

Reading your replies to one another is like watching a match between two extremely fit and graceful tennis players who are at once deadly serious and also also just playing for the joy of the thing.

I can't tell you how much fun this is for me... I feel so lucky to have met and gotten to know you.

And... BTW (by the way)... what does ITA mean (one of these days I WILL take a class on netspeak.....)?

Re: A salute in honor to ya....

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! It's true we're deadly serious. We'd love to lob these people right out of the court!

ITA=I totally agree.:-)

A bit late but…

[samaranth.livejournal.com]

What an amazing experience, magpie!

It feels a bit strange: reading through the lj reports of this it’s really easy to imagine being there! After all, it’s only a month since I was there at the Lincoln Centre with you and petitesoeur and leshii.

It’s true about seeing the movies back to back – you can see how it really is all one story, not three individual ones. Excellent point about Elrond/Aragorn and Bilbo/Frodo – the two paternal figures who aren’t, not really.

I was rather stunned by the howls of the pack on TORC. I couldn’t really see what there was in the report of the interview with Sean Astin to warrant such a completely negative judgement of him – and the extension of this to Elijah Wood was astonishing. Woo! If they give ‘answerless answers’ it’s usually because they are being asked answerless questions. In my time I’ve heard a lot of real politicians being interviewed, and, honestly, if you want a string of slick meaninglessness, nothing surpasses them. In almost all instances they are professional liars and dissemblers – it’s part of the job and it can be nauseating.

I’d formed the opposite view of Sean and Elijah, and in fact of most of the LOTR cast. They answer what they can, try to make it as fresh as possible year after year, and still seem to stay more or less themselves while they’re doing their job and responding. I’ve been impressed both with their openness (or honesty), but also their ability to deflect questions away from places they don’t want (and don’t need) to go. After all they’re actors, not world rulers or anything. (At least, not yet, in the case of Sean Astin. :P ) The test of accountability is different.

Re: A bit late but…

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It would have been so great if you'd been there--I was definitely thinking of you, remember when you were here.:-)

I was shocked at the reaction to that article. I guess some people were shocked that actors were even allowed to say things like this but he really wasn't saying anything that strange.

I had the same reaction to people flipping out over it. There were a few rumblings about these kinds of things after the actor's commentaries but it was more just the reaction to listening to them talk and not these sweeping judgements about them as people. The answerless answer thing really floored me too because, like you, I'm amazed at how this cast is exactly the opposite. They all have real things to say about their characters! I've never heard actors this eager to talk about what the story means to them and what the character's about and the whole process. Sometimes the questions are just ridiculous, though. Like when PJ was asked what Tolkien really meant in writing the story it was just like...how could he answer that? It was a minefield of a question besides, which is why Elijah just said, "Good luck, Pete." But he still had a solid answer he was willing to give. Or when Elijah was asked what Frodo's little nod meant at the end and he was honestly trying to think back to what he was thinking at the time. Sean jumped in with, "Whatever you've discussed, you were right." But still after a while thinking he DID answer. This whole movie trilogy has been a feast of insights into the process, the relationships behind the camera, the characters. Perhaps Tolkien fans are just spoiled rotten!