I know I'm years behind the rest of the fandom, but I've just read my first super-Americanized fic and I can't stop chuckling. It was just so...odd. And it made me think about the question of naming characters as well.



I hope this just doesn't sound terribly catty, picking on ff.net-authors, but for some reason this story made me gleefully giggly. Because it's not like it's the worst thing ever on ff.net by a longshot. It's just very...what it is.

So in the story Will goes to a made-up University (Linxton, which isn’t so bad as fake-University names go). He got in on a full scholarship because of good grades, a zillion hours of community service and an excellent essay on how being the seventh child in the family means his parents were already paying off college tuition for six other siblings. It's like a Brit-picker test: how many things wrong can you find in this sentence? (Extra points if you remember Will is the youngest of nine and not seven.) Anyway, his roommate turns out to be Bran, which is a surprise, and then he discovers that Jane lives down the hall with her roommate, a Phi Nu Delta who gets notes from her secret sis “sprawled” across her door. In what may be the very first gratuitous product placement scene in a fanfic, Will sets up her DELL computer while Bran jokingly repeats DELL’s slogan, "Dude, you're getting a DELL." Is this a possible source of revenue for fanficcers? Because as I read the fic I distinctly remember feeling dissatisfied with my Gateway.

My favorite part was after the pepperoni pizza, as Bran and Will are getting ready for their first night at college (I assume there will be no slash in this piece as upon meeting his old friend Will gives Bran a "manly" hug) Bran says, "I’m going to bed. Buona Sera, Will," to which Will replies, "Buona Sera right back at ya."

Because Welsh is just SO last week. (And btw, shouldn't that be "Buona notte?")

Anyway, the thing that made me think about names is Jane's roommate, who presumably will make up the fourth of a quartet (Bran has already told us the "chick is sort of cute"). That means the main characters will probably be: Will, Jane, Bran and...Amber.

Amber. Kinda stands out like a turd in a punchbowl, dunnit? Even more so when you stick it in amongst Jane and Will's brothers and sisters: Simon, Jane, Barney, Stephen, Max, Paul, Robin, Gwen, Amber, Barbara, Mary, James, Will. Even Margaret is less jarring and she’s a mistake leftover from an earlier draft. TDiR does have one American character, actually, Will's aunt-by-marriage. But her name's Fran.

Even without something as aggressively teenie as Amber, I've just always been fascinated at names in general, and which ones go together. Like, growing up I loved the way brothers and sisters had names that fit together. My sister married a guy with two kids, and they now have two more, and the names do really pair off with each other, meaning you can almost "hear" that the second two have a different influence. (In fact, my cousin has recently had a third child and given it a name that is such a non-sequitor everyone describes it as sounding like she’d remarried.) When I got to college it seemed like the names of the people my friends had been friends with in high school went together as well. The girl from Georgia, whose name ended in "y" had friends whose names ended in "y"--they sounded like a cheerleading squad. The one from Minnesota came from a group of plain, unassuming names. My own friends and I had names that read like “greatest hits of the nineteenth century.”

But king it must be really hard if you're writing an OC to choose a name that fits in with a set canon while still being new, because in a way all the characters in a canon are part of the same family in that they came out of the same head, even though the author presumably tries to give them different-sounding names depending on their background. For instance, JKR obviously has chosen to use a lot of floral names for female characters--but not all of them. Certain types of Purebloods get constellation names. But really there's a mixture, with the most important thing being that everybody winds up having the right name, somehow. There's a reason Gregory and Vincent are bad guy names here while Neville and Ron are good guy names. There's a reason Luna works while a fanfic OC called Star might not. I wonder how people go about coming up with OC names. Presumably you would try to start with the idea of what JKR was going for with the type of characters you're writing. For instance, I think a lot of young fanfic-ers like to give their OC present-day Slytherin a cool, Goth-sounding name when really we're talking Greg, Millicent, Vincent, Theodore, Marcus. There's Severus, Draco, Bellatrix and Blaise as well, but none of those is Jade, Brianna or Sequoia.

I guess I've been thinking about this too because I'm working on two universes at the moment who are slowly being peopled, one with my partner and one by myself. They're both very different worlds so the names reflect that, but also one world comes from both our heads and the other is just mine. What's the same, though, is when you finally hit on the name that's right. Sometimes, especially with the thing that's from just my head, I'll be using one name sort of awkwardly and then finally the real name will pop out and everything will sound much more normal. Still, if anyone was ever to write a fanfic in either of these universes, I wonder how they could approach making up an OC name, since especially I know that very rarely would a name from one universe fit in the other. I'll bet there would be times where if an author read a fanfic s/he might think the name was a good one; or s/he might not like the name at all just because it's never a name s/he would choose, either because they have different associations with it or because they just don't like the sound of it.

All of which is I guess a vote for those fics about those characters who are so minor they're OCs because hey, at least you've got the name right and that's important.

Also, in case I'm not updating tomorrow, would it be obnoxious to wish [livejournal.com profile] isiscolo an early birthday? Start celebrating now, it's Friday!
lotesse: (Default)

From: [personal profile] lotesse


Please don't tell me where to find that fic. The masochism might overpower me, forcing me into reading it, and death would follow shortly after.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


LOL--luckily that's pretty much it. There's only two very short chapters that set things up...but what two chapters they are!!

From: [identity profile] slytherincesss.livejournal.com


I have a Slytherin OC in my WIP. I wrote it before OotP was released, and made an educated guess that JKR was going to show us more of the Lestranges, which she certainly did with Bellatrix. My OC is the daughter of Bellatrix and Rodolphus Lestrange, and she was born in Azkaban. My WIP is a fifth year fic, and Astrid (the OC) is a third year, but only because she missed the birthday cutoff. So she's 10 months younger than Harry and crew. I'm not sure if that makes sense; at one point I had it all figured out . . . ANYWAY . . . I wanted a name that wasn't stupid and emo-gothy, but one that was rather quiet and a bit on the classic/elegant side. At the time I wrote her in, I didn't know what the Lestranges' first names would be. Astrid means 'strength' or 'divine strength' . . . she's not a divine character, but she needs strength.

She has two Slytherin friends who are also OCs, named Saorise O'Shea (Saorise is pronouned "sear-suh") and Mina Malkin-Blotts (an obvious result of a marriage somewhere in the Malkin and Blotts families). They don't come up very often, but I don't think their names are too far outside of the norm for Potterverse. I waffled on the Malkin-Blotts, but decided it must be okay, owing to Finch-Fletchley.

From: [identity profile] saturniia.livejournal.com


Not to get into the whole thing too deeply, but isn't Finch-Fletchley Muggleborn or "half-blooded"?

From: [identity profile] saturniia.livejournal.com


Thought so. Naming processes might be slightly different for Purebloods and Muggleborns, considering the different "worlds" they're born into.

From: [identity profile] slytherincesss.livejournal.com


I thought about that. I think I extrapolated it owing to the fact that it is implied that Justin Finch-Fletchley is one of the uppercrust; he was Eton-bound. So I just made a choice to assume that perhaps in the wealthier, older purebloods, names might be important in the same way. It's definitely a choice, though, and one I can't back up any further than what I've already said :D

From: [identity profile] saturniia.livejournal.com


It's all cool. In any case, we don't have an official say either way.

From: [identity profile] ex-lonicera600.livejournal.com


Well, the Malkins and the Blotts may be wealthy, but they surely aren't uppercrust. They're business people using stores to create their income, which means they're middle-class if they're lucky. Upperclass people live from their inherited money or estates, they don't have to work for their income.

But it's a very nice sounding name anyway.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Yes--though I do like the idea of ambitious middle-class merchants in Slytherin.:-)

From: [identity profile] ex-lonicera600.livejournal.com


Absolutely. I didn't mean to say they couldn't be in Slytherin. I don't think Slytherin is the 'nobel house' or anything. Given the fact that there's only one wizard school in Britain the students will be fairly mixed within the houses regarding their descent. I don't suppose Crabbe and Goyle are uppercrust either, for instance.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Oh yes, I didn't think you were saying they couldn't be in Slytherin, just pointing out the difference between them and the landed gentry, which families like the Malfoys seem to represent. I think it's a great combination in Slytherin to have these types working together.

From: [identity profile] ex-lonicera600.livejournal.com


I think it's a great combination in Slytherin to have these types working together.

Don't you think that's true for the other houses as well? As I said above they should all be fairly mixed. So the before quoted Justin Finch-Fletchley in Hufflepuff will be together and working with students from 'lower' classes as well, I think.
ext_6866: (Me)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Definitely--I think we've seen it in Hufflepuff and I assume it's the same in the other houses as well. It's interesting to think of any of the major qualities of the houses applied to people from different backgrounds.

From: [identity profile] slytherincesss.livejournal.com


Many, many wealthy people work because they want to. There is no indication in canon that all wealthy purebloods lie around doing nothing all day.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


I can defiitely deal with those--is Saorise Gaelic? Mina Malkin-Blotts I like *a lot.* It seems like there should be a few hyphenated names in Slytherin. [livejournal.com profile] saturniia could be right on the tradition not carrying over, but going by Muggle culture it seems to fit. Plus I like Mina as a name anyway.:-) Astrid, too, sounds like it's star-related even if it isn't, so it doesn't jar me. Astrid LeStrange has a nice ring to it.

From: [identity profile] slytherincesss.livejournal.com


Yes, Saorise is gaelic, which is why she has an obviously Irish surname. I like Mina Malkin-Blotts too; it seems to flow well. Astrid -- I don't know if it is astrological in any way; it's actually a Norweigan name, I believe. But I did think about what names to use very carefully. Especially Astrid. I follow the OC Analysis community, and Oy . . . some of the names that come up . . . *facepalms*

From: [identity profile] ex-lonicera600.livejournal.com


As far as I know 'Astrid' means star. But I can't remember in which language right now. The Latin word for star is 'astra', it may be derived from that.
ext_1611: Isis statue (me me me)

From: [identity profile] isiscolo.livejournal.com


Aw, thanks. Actually my family, being Jewish, usually calls me on "erev birthday" as we jokingly call it!
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Oh good, just consider me the black sheep of the family then. And have a happy birthday!:-)

From: [identity profile] dragon-charmer.livejournal.com


Interesting - fortunately for me I don't know this universe so won't ask for the link *snigger*. I guess 'Amber' might work if the author has created a universe where crystal names are often used, but you need to get that into your writing as part of the plot.

Names are such a pain - I struggle all the time with them. In fact I was looking for a name for Draco's wife for a short story I'm writing. It was really a struggle to get something that 'sounded right'.

I work in a call centre and can almost age the people calling by the names they give.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Interesting - fortunately for me I don't know this universe so won't ask for the link *snigger*. I guess 'Amber' might work if the author has created a universe where crystal names are often used, but you need to get that into your writing as part of the plot.


You probably don't want to know. The universe is basically plain old England, books written in the 70s, with kids from London, Wales and Buckinghamshire. I don't know if Phi Nu Delta has a chapter in any of those places.;-)

Names are such a pain - I struggle all the time with them. In fact I was looking for a name for Draco's wife for a short story I'm writing. It was really a struggle to get something that 'sounded right'.

I know what you mean--because you don't want it to stick out so that there's too much attention paid to it, but it has to be there--at least that's what I got from the mention of her name (which I loved because I wanted to think about the drunken New Year's kiss, myself!!).

I'm remember now when I was in college I mentioned my sister and a friend who'd known me for years thought I was making her up since I'd never mentioned her. He insisted I was lying until he asked her name and I told him, and then he believed me. His reason was he said he thought if I was going to make up a name for my fake sister, it wouldn't have been that one!

From: [identity profile] dragon-charmer.livejournal.com


But didn't you know ... Phi Nu Delta is in every university here *snigger*. Actually that sounds like some sort of wizard name.

Thanks for the comment on her name. It actually follows the train of thought you have just said about your sister being 'fake' until she had a name. Just calling the woman 'Draco's wife' didn't seem to be an option, but I didn't want a name that would take people's mind of the action.

I meant to mention something in my original reply about names seeming to fit in. I have four brothers and a sister and we all have middle names that start with 'J' with the exception of my youngest brother and it always seems strange that he's not got a 'J' name.

From: [identity profile] no-remorse.livejournal.com


There's a reason Luna works while a fanfic OC called Star might not.

Would Stella work better? It looks like a nice homage to Stella Gibbons of Cold Comfort Farm fame, doesn't it?
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


It could, maybe! Or Estella too, like in Great Expectations. In fact, I didn't want to go all the way and say that Star *wouldn't* work, because maybe with the right last name JKR could make it fit.

From: [identity profile] pinkfinity.livejournal.com


I've always felt that the Starkadders had to be Slytherins, at least until the madness set in and Aunt Ada started shooting the owls who came to bring the Hogwarts letters so nobody knew they'd been admitted...

From: [identity profile] no-remorse.livejournal.com


There have always been Starkadders in Slytherin.... ah, at Cold Comfort Farm. Of course, if the Starkadders are magical, what nasty something did Aunt Ada see in the woodshed?

Could it be Dumbledore doing things with his wand and a pair of socks that no one ever seen before?


From: [identity profile] pinkfinity.livejournal.com


Hmmm, but wouldn't she have been Dumbledore's age? Maybe Tom's Grandfather?House Elf?
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Sequoia? Is that a name?

LOL--It's less jarring when it's the name of a high school, but sometimes kids get saddled with it too.

It probably appeals to people trying to get in touch with their non-Native American roots.

From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com


It should totally be Buonanotte. Ahaha, actually, that's kind of funny.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


LOL! Thought so.

Technically, it should probably really be something more like, "Nos da, Will bach."



From: [identity profile] malafede.livejournal.com


It's always half-funny half-endearing when people think Italian/French/German words are exotic and want to use them in their fic and then miss the mark spectacularly. I mean! It gives me this new whole dilemma where I'd like to tell them but then I am afraid they would be mortified. The Buonasera thing isn't even the worse offence... of course, it's not just that you're using the wrong time reference, telling someone Good Evening rather than Good Night, it's just that Buonasera is incredibly formal and when not used with strangers it's always, always ironic.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


I wondered about that. I don't know Italian at all, but it seemed like, "Good evening," would be something you would say to, like, a business person you were having a formal meeting with, just as you rarely say, "Good evening," to people informally in English.

Of course, my own main association with Buonanotte is that it sounds like the song from Lady & the Tramp, "Bella Notte."

From: [identity profile] mahoni.livejournal.com


Your description of the story is hilarious.

Also, I agree with you, that naming an original character in such a way that it fits with the sound of canon names seems to be tough. Particularly in terms of the HP universe, imho, where it *seems* that any frufru name would work, because there are so many seemingly cutsie names already (Lavendar, Pansy, Draco, etc.) The difference is that in canon those kind of names either work in context with the character and/or the character's surname, or else they work because they are canon, period. If that makes sense.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Particularly in terms of the HP universe, imho, where it *seems* that any frufru name would work, because there are so many seemingly cutsie names already (Lavendar, Pansy, Draco, etc.) The difference is that in canon those kind of names either work in context with the character and/or the character's surname, or else they work because they are canon, period. If that makes sense.

Yes, it does--perfect sense. I wonder if the real consistency there isn't that all these names are coming out of one head. Like, I doubt JKR has some formula for coming up with names. She uses a name that sounds correct to her, probably based on instinct, but the instinct itself is probably based on a lot of things she knows about her own world.

And then, you're right, canon is canon so it's presented to you as one piece. You can't just isolate one name from the rest, exactly.

From: [identity profile] ishtar79.livejournal.com


Just for the record, I was at first convinced I'd already commented on your post (Obviously didn't. Which means, hypothetical comment could or could not be posted at random entry/journal. Oops), then tried to write out a short comment, and nearly clicked on 'post' before I realised I'd somehow switched the keyboard language, and entire comment was written in Greek letters.

Obviously the nicotine deprivation induced total brain shut down has begun.

So before I become officially braindead: that fics sounds like tje perfect argument for the necessity of Britpickers.

And I never spared a thought for those poor authors attempting to write an OC that's not the Mary Sue. It must be difficult enough to give said OC a good, original, non-Sue characterisations. Add to that the complex dilemma of finding the just perfect name to seemlessly flow with the HP verse...
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


LOL--I'm almost disappointed I didn't get the Greek-letter version.

And yeah, I was going to add that the Mary Sue authors have it a lot easier since they just have to come up with an appropriate Mary Sue name, which is more recognizeable.

Although now I'm trying to picture an entire canon world filled with Mary Sues, and an author trying to come up with an OC name that fit!

From: [identity profile] jane-somebody.livejournal.com


Oh dear. Ohdearohdearohdear. I have always maintained that the rarer, more 'literary' or 'classic' fandoms such as DiR tend to produce a better quality of fic, on average. I still think this is so, but this one does pull the average down. It's possible that 'my rule' would apply more consistently if we just limited it to slash fics, because mostly that rules out the possiblility of mary-sues; and of course there is a mary-sue: youth: unformed-writing-style correlation.

Because let's face it, this is really a mary-sue we're talking about here, I presume, even if (perhaps) a slightly more subtle one than some. And this, I think, is relevant in terms of the choice of name. Your exposition on naming was fascinating, and it is easy to see how authors can try to choose an appropriate name for their OCs, but miss the mark because of just not being familiar with the period/place or whatever. However I do believe that when authors are choosing names for their mary-sues, they are not, as a rule, swayed by these considerations at all. They are not trying to choose a name appropriate to the original work; their primary concern is to choose a name they *like*, a name, perhaps, that they think is way cooler than their own real name, that they wish they had been called. Because by giving that name to their mary-sue, their place-stander in the fictional world, is almost as good as having it themselves.

(And hi! Sorry to be so long-winded - I struggle for the proper words to express myself consisely sometimes because I have ME/CFS. Or perhaps just because I'm stupid, who can say?)
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


No, not long-winded at all! (What is ME/CFS?) And I have the same assumptions about smaller fandoms like TDiR. It seems like if someone has sought out a book not as heavily promoted with the kinds of references TDiR has, you feel like they're going to do it right. Also TDiR uses the landscape so much it seems like you'd always be aware of it. But apparently it doesn't have to work that way.:-)

I know there are good het fics out there too, but it does seem sometimes that because slash takes that bit of extra thought and deals with canon characters and not OCs you have a better chance of getting quality.

From: [identity profile] jane-somebody.livejournal.com


Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (http://www.afme.org.uk/allaboutme.asp?id=1); I think in the US it's called CFIDS? One of the (wide array of!) symptoms can be what we call 'brainfog' - luckily I don't have too much of a problem with this (or so I suppose!), but I do find I sometimes struggle to find the right words/phrases especially when I am tired.
ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com


Oh yes, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I'm sorry to hear that--I've read things about people who have it and it sounds like it can just be awful in general. I remember reading about it affecting the ability to think of the right words and phrases. But you definitely made sense to me!

My brother had an injury several years ago that sometimes causes that problem too.

From: (Anonymous)

namegeekiness


I love names! One of the best presents I've gotten recently was a copy of "The Penguin Classic Baby Name Book: 2,000 Names from the World's Great Literature" by Grace Hamlin. It's absolutely fascinating, even aside from the fantasies about the parent who decides that "Aquilina," (the pseudonym of a Balzac prostitute bent on seeking vengeance on all mankind for the execution of her lover in a republican conspiracy) or "Scythrop," (a satirical version of Shelley by Thomas Love Peacock) would be the perfect name for their little one!

I just love baby name books in general, though, even ones that refer to my name as "a stenographer that never learned how to use the Internet."


ext_6866: (What's this?)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com

Re: namegeekiness


Baby name books are so an addiction to me--yours sounds like the mother of all baby name books! I have the New American Heritage Dictionary of Baby Names and look through it all the time, but I love the idea of a purely literary one.

Stenographer that never learned how to use the Internet...fascinating...
.

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