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I have this post on Sirius and Regulus and East of Eden I keep thinking about putting up. I think the trouble with it is that I can't stop babbling in it, just wandering off and wondering how things could be, given that we have zero to no canon about them.
Today, though, I was thinking about
In an interview about Six Feet Under Alan Ball, rather wonderfully, referred to the character of Rico Diaz as the tragically underappreciated adopted son or something to that affect. I loved that because I thought that was absolutely true--Rico was brought into the business by Nathaniel Fisher, Sr. He was the most interested in Fisher & Sons, the business, and he was the most talented (he was an artist at reconstruction). Yet he could never quite be part of the family, and so part of the business. In a very real way he was one of the the "Sons" of Fisher & Sons, but was never really seen that way. Mostly the way he was treated as a son, imo, was to be resented by the real sons when they felt inadequate.
That made me think about how I always felt Krycek was a lot like that in The X-files. Mulder and Spender were both the legitimate sons of Bill Mulder and CSM (or both of CSM, damn you, Chris Carter), and Krycek was the outsider fighting his way into the Conspiracy. Although Krycek was more determined and willing, it was Mulder and Spender who were the desirable ones because they were blood.
So what does that have to do with Snape? Well, nothing. Or not much, exactly. It's just that I was thinking about Snape and Sirius. The two characters have a pretty intense relationship in canon. We are first told by DD in PS/SS that Snape hates Harry because he and Harry's father hated each other. Certainly Snape hates Harry because he reminds him of James, and both Sirius and Snape are accused of mistaking Harry for his father. So while James and Sirius were best friends, and Snape and James hated each other, James also provides a sort of focal point around which Sirius and Snape hate each other.
However, since I'm somebody who really likes family sagas, and in HP I think all the family sagas are the tragedies on the Dark Side of the book (the Weasleys have their drama and their dysfunction, but it's mostly rooted in the present...it's just not the operatic drama of the Blacks), I can't help but think about Snape as a Black. Sirius leaves his family and is blasted off the family tree. He goes to a family on the "good" side, the Potters, and they become his family. In the present time Sirius is considered a member of that family, I would say.
But what about Snape? The post-HBP interest in Regulus begs the question of what, if any, relationship Snape and Regulus had. Regulus was the son who stayed on the family tree. Even after rejecting the DEs, he was still a loyal Black as far as we know. They were both DEs together. HBP makes a point of bringing Regulus into the fold, even if you don't think he is R.A.B. (which I think he is). Slughorn first brings him up as a Slytherin, "I got [Sirius'] brother Regulus when he came along." (He sees the Black boys as "a matched set.") I can't find the other quote, but I know there's somewhere where someone says that Regulus only lived a few days after leaving the DEs. Iow, although we never heard of the lad before OotP, everyone is on a first name basis with him. Well, that's part of the fun of a coming-of-age mystery. All the adults know more than you do, because they were all alive then. How was Harry to know he should worry about Regulus when he didn't know he existed, and then when he did know Sirius acted like he wasn't important?
It becomes very tempting to imagine Snape, who is the same age as Sirius, replacing him in a way in the family's eyes. We have no evidence that Regulus looked at Snape the way he had at Sirius, but there's just something interesting about Snape being at Grimmauld Place given that he was (or is) more in line with what the house represents. (It adds some nice possibilities for the fact he won't stay for dinner.)
The main reason for thinking of it is that in HBP Snape *is* there helping the Blacks. Narcissa (Black) Malfoy comes to him for help protecting her son (also a Black). Snape and Bellatrix (Black) LeStrange seem to know each other very well. Narcissa references Snape's friendship with Lucius (Sirius had earlier called Snape Lucius' lapdog), but while we know he and Lucius have a relationship it's the Blacks with whom Snape seems the most bound up: Draco, Narcissa, Bellatrix and Sirius. Snape may not be "family" in their Pureblood eyes, but their ties seem almost as close. Had Sirius not been a "blood traitor" he might have been the one his cousin, Narcissa, went to for protection for her son as head of the family. He might have been the one sniping with Bellatrix. (I can see him making a UV as well, if not necessarily this one.) Harry tells us Snape seems to like Draco the very first day of class. Has he met him before? Is it just that Draco was Lucius' son, or is Snape close with Draco's family? And by Draco's family, I mostly mean the Blacks, since those are the relatives we usually see in canon? This storyline is a family drama, with Voldemort being simply the outside influence. In fact, Voldemort seems to spend the whole year picking on Draco.
It makes me wonder, thinking back on OotP, if Snape ever spent time in the house at Grimmauld Place the way Sirius stayed with the Potters. He wasn't best buddies with Regulus as far as we know, but he may have gotten involved with the whole family during Voldemort's first rise. Fanon has often named Snape Draco's godfather and while this might not be literally true he is rather acting as one in HBP.
Maybe the other reason I wonder about this comes down to house elves. Besides being hilarious when he waxed rhapsodic over Draco's bone structure in HBP, Kreacher was also very serious in considering him a Black. Dobby betrayed the Malfoys to serve Harry Potter; Kreacher betrayed Sirius and would love to serve the last of the Blacks. I think maybe it's the fact that I think of Kreacher as part of the Black family that made me start thinking about Snape this way.
Snape may be a Prince, but he's a half-blood. He's not married--Pureblood ideology makes it impossible for him to marry himself into the kind of family he supported as a DE. But that doesn't mean he didn't fashion himself some place in that family. It's interesting for me to think that that might drive some of his confrontations with Sirius as well. Sirius may have left his family behind and said good riddance, but would he really like the idea of Snape getting a spot in it? I don't think it's too wild an idea to think that Snape would have coveted a spot in that family. He was a DE, he supported the ideology (I don't think you can surgically remove Pureblood Mania from the DE ideology so that Snape's not a bigot), he used Mudblood as an insult at least once. Sirius compares him to a Pureblood's lapdog. The name Half-blood Prince could mean he's a Prince among half-bloods, or it can also be Snape claiming a place for himself in the wizarding side of his family. He's a half-blood, but he's still a Prince. He did perhaps want a wizard family. (Can't blame the man there--look at Harry and Hermione!)
I have no idea what really went on. It just seems like there's some good potential for something in the fact that Snape plays such a huge part in the Black family drama of HBP, taking over as the patriarch in some ways, when Sirius was so defined by being an Outsider. Not that Snape's role goes completely smoothly. Bellatrix is obviously suspicious of him, but more on Voldemort's behalf. Draco is potentially even more interesting on that score, since just as Snape steps into a father's role Draco becomes rebellious and suspicious. One wonders if there's a "you're not my father!" lurking there somewhere, with Draco projecting some of his anger about his father onto Snape. I've always liked the fact that when Snape and Draco argue the thing that makes Draco lose it and stomp off in a huff is when Snape responds to his claim that Snape is trying to steal his glory by saying he knows Draco is upset about his father. Seems like Snape doesn't buy that glory stuff either.
Anyway, I guess I haven't actually said anything. It's just an interesting aspect to Snape and Sirius' relationship. In the fight between the two in OotP, Sirius, in one of his Black-est (and Draco-ish) moments, leans back in his chair lazily and, speaking to the ceiling, says, "You know, I think I'd prefer it if you didn't give orders here, Snape. It's my house, you see." This creates an "ugly flush" in Snape's pallid face. He then becomes quietly waspish, and hits Sirius with the charge of being useless. Harry later remembers this and claims Snape goaded Sirius into leaving the house, implying he was a coward. It's certainly true that this is Sirius' sore spot. Could Snape have pulled it out because Sirius had hit his own sore spot by claiming the Black House as his own and speaking to Snape like an unworthy guest in it? Not even a poor relation? That ugly flush seems a bit much for the remark Sirius made otherwise, at least to me. Perhaps Sirius was really was pulling out the Pureblood Black card, without Harry realizing it. If Snape longed to be a real Black, I could certainly see Sirius mocking him about it.
Today, though, I was thinking about
In an interview about Six Feet Under Alan Ball, rather wonderfully, referred to the character of Rico Diaz as the tragically underappreciated adopted son or something to that affect. I loved that because I thought that was absolutely true--Rico was brought into the business by Nathaniel Fisher, Sr. He was the most interested in Fisher & Sons, the business, and he was the most talented (he was an artist at reconstruction). Yet he could never quite be part of the family, and so part of the business. In a very real way he was one of the the "Sons" of Fisher & Sons, but was never really seen that way. Mostly the way he was treated as a son, imo, was to be resented by the real sons when they felt inadequate.
That made me think about how I always felt Krycek was a lot like that in The X-files. Mulder and Spender were both the legitimate sons of Bill Mulder and CSM (or both of CSM, damn you, Chris Carter), and Krycek was the outsider fighting his way into the Conspiracy. Although Krycek was more determined and willing, it was Mulder and Spender who were the desirable ones because they were blood.
So what does that have to do with Snape? Well, nothing. Or not much, exactly. It's just that I was thinking about Snape and Sirius. The two characters have a pretty intense relationship in canon. We are first told by DD in PS/SS that Snape hates Harry because he and Harry's father hated each other. Certainly Snape hates Harry because he reminds him of James, and both Sirius and Snape are accused of mistaking Harry for his father. So while James and Sirius were best friends, and Snape and James hated each other, James also provides a sort of focal point around which Sirius and Snape hate each other.
However, since I'm somebody who really likes family sagas, and in HP I think all the family sagas are the tragedies on the Dark Side of the book (the Weasleys have their drama and their dysfunction, but it's mostly rooted in the present...it's just not the operatic drama of the Blacks), I can't help but think about Snape as a Black. Sirius leaves his family and is blasted off the family tree. He goes to a family on the "good" side, the Potters, and they become his family. In the present time Sirius is considered a member of that family, I would say.
But what about Snape? The post-HBP interest in Regulus begs the question of what, if any, relationship Snape and Regulus had. Regulus was the son who stayed on the family tree. Even after rejecting the DEs, he was still a loyal Black as far as we know. They were both DEs together. HBP makes a point of bringing Regulus into the fold, even if you don't think he is R.A.B. (which I think he is). Slughorn first brings him up as a Slytherin, "I got [Sirius'] brother Regulus when he came along." (He sees the Black boys as "a matched set.") I can't find the other quote, but I know there's somewhere where someone says that Regulus only lived a few days after leaving the DEs. Iow, although we never heard of the lad before OotP, everyone is on a first name basis with him. Well, that's part of the fun of a coming-of-age mystery. All the adults know more than you do, because they were all alive then. How was Harry to know he should worry about Regulus when he didn't know he existed, and then when he did know Sirius acted like he wasn't important?
It becomes very tempting to imagine Snape, who is the same age as Sirius, replacing him in a way in the family's eyes. We have no evidence that Regulus looked at Snape the way he had at Sirius, but there's just something interesting about Snape being at Grimmauld Place given that he was (or is) more in line with what the house represents. (It adds some nice possibilities for the fact he won't stay for dinner.)
The main reason for thinking of it is that in HBP Snape *is* there helping the Blacks. Narcissa (Black) Malfoy comes to him for help protecting her son (also a Black). Snape and Bellatrix (Black) LeStrange seem to know each other very well. Narcissa references Snape's friendship with Lucius (Sirius had earlier called Snape Lucius' lapdog), but while we know he and Lucius have a relationship it's the Blacks with whom Snape seems the most bound up: Draco, Narcissa, Bellatrix and Sirius. Snape may not be "family" in their Pureblood eyes, but their ties seem almost as close. Had Sirius not been a "blood traitor" he might have been the one his cousin, Narcissa, went to for protection for her son as head of the family. He might have been the one sniping with Bellatrix. (I can see him making a UV as well, if not necessarily this one.) Harry tells us Snape seems to like Draco the very first day of class. Has he met him before? Is it just that Draco was Lucius' son, or is Snape close with Draco's family? And by Draco's family, I mostly mean the Blacks, since those are the relatives we usually see in canon? This storyline is a family drama, with Voldemort being simply the outside influence. In fact, Voldemort seems to spend the whole year picking on Draco.
It makes me wonder, thinking back on OotP, if Snape ever spent time in the house at Grimmauld Place the way Sirius stayed with the Potters. He wasn't best buddies with Regulus as far as we know, but he may have gotten involved with the whole family during Voldemort's first rise. Fanon has often named Snape Draco's godfather and while this might not be literally true he is rather acting as one in HBP.
Maybe the other reason I wonder about this comes down to house elves. Besides being hilarious when he waxed rhapsodic over Draco's bone structure in HBP, Kreacher was also very serious in considering him a Black. Dobby betrayed the Malfoys to serve Harry Potter; Kreacher betrayed Sirius and would love to serve the last of the Blacks. I think maybe it's the fact that I think of Kreacher as part of the Black family that made me start thinking about Snape this way.
Snape may be a Prince, but he's a half-blood. He's not married--Pureblood ideology makes it impossible for him to marry himself into the kind of family he supported as a DE. But that doesn't mean he didn't fashion himself some place in that family. It's interesting for me to think that that might drive some of his confrontations with Sirius as well. Sirius may have left his family behind and said good riddance, but would he really like the idea of Snape getting a spot in it? I don't think it's too wild an idea to think that Snape would have coveted a spot in that family. He was a DE, he supported the ideology (I don't think you can surgically remove Pureblood Mania from the DE ideology so that Snape's not a bigot), he used Mudblood as an insult at least once. Sirius compares him to a Pureblood's lapdog. The name Half-blood Prince could mean he's a Prince among half-bloods, or it can also be Snape claiming a place for himself in the wizarding side of his family. He's a half-blood, but he's still a Prince. He did perhaps want a wizard family. (Can't blame the man there--look at Harry and Hermione!)
I have no idea what really went on. It just seems like there's some good potential for something in the fact that Snape plays such a huge part in the Black family drama of HBP, taking over as the patriarch in some ways, when Sirius was so defined by being an Outsider. Not that Snape's role goes completely smoothly. Bellatrix is obviously suspicious of him, but more on Voldemort's behalf. Draco is potentially even more interesting on that score, since just as Snape steps into a father's role Draco becomes rebellious and suspicious. One wonders if there's a "you're not my father!" lurking there somewhere, with Draco projecting some of his anger about his father onto Snape. I've always liked the fact that when Snape and Draco argue the thing that makes Draco lose it and stomp off in a huff is when Snape responds to his claim that Snape is trying to steal his glory by saying he knows Draco is upset about his father. Seems like Snape doesn't buy that glory stuff either.
Anyway, I guess I haven't actually said anything. It's just an interesting aspect to Snape and Sirius' relationship. In the fight between the two in OotP, Sirius, in one of his Black-est (and Draco-ish) moments, leans back in his chair lazily and, speaking to the ceiling, says, "You know, I think I'd prefer it if you didn't give orders here, Snape. It's my house, you see." This creates an "ugly flush" in Snape's pallid face. He then becomes quietly waspish, and hits Sirius with the charge of being useless. Harry later remembers this and claims Snape goaded Sirius into leaving the house, implying he was a coward. It's certainly true that this is Sirius' sore spot. Could Snape have pulled it out because Sirius had hit his own sore spot by claiming the Black House as his own and speaking to Snape like an unworthy guest in it? Not even a poor relation? That ugly flush seems a bit much for the remark Sirius made otherwise, at least to me. Perhaps Sirius was really was pulling out the Pureblood Black card, without Harry realizing it. If Snape longed to be a real Black, I could certainly see Sirius mocking him about it.
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I've always had very, very little interest in the house of Malfoy, mostly because Lucius for some reason is simply boring in my eyes (never got on the fanon bandwagon of Draco & his Malfoy Pride etc). Then came OOTP, Sirius' family immediately caught my attention, and imagine my excitement when I found out Draco was half a Black too! Now this is a family I could really sink my teeth into. While we've seen quite a bit of Black drama in HBP, there is bound to be more in the next book. Regulus certainly would be important, we likely would see more of Tonks and Andromeda, Narcissa and Bella would at least get some sort of resolution while Draco, I refuse to believe Kreacher's brief stalking job was just there to create comedy effect (though it *really* was funny).
Back to your main point- I think the case of Snape/Blacks is different from that of Sirius/Potters mainly in that Snape does seem to think positively of at least one of his parents. Thus, I don't think he would feel too keenly to be considered a 'somewhat' family member, since he certainly had not denounced his own the way Sirius did. But then again, I had overlooked the implication behind that "ugly flush", which like you said, was too strong an emotional response to an insult I'd have thought he could shrug off easily? Hmmm...... The only thing I can safely say is never underestimate Snape's role in *any* arc or sub-arc in Potterverse (all roads lead to Snape!), and a Snape who was some sort of friend and/or brother to Regulus? I'd *love* to read this fic!!!
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Heh! Yes, I was really trying to reign in the speculation, since anything we imagine has to be that. There's precious little actual information there, but it does seem possible that the foundation is being laid for some.
I've always had very, very little interest in the house of Malfoy, mostly because Lucius for some reason is simply boring in my eyes (never got on the fanon bandwagon of Draco & his Malfoy Pride etc).
I was the same way, and it always sort of surprised me. I don't know whether it was that I found Lucius boring or not, but for some reason it always just seemed less interesting than I'd expect it to be. I jumped for joy to find them on that tapestry, though. It's also kind of interesting that in a way Lucius was such a misdirection. We're told Draco looks just like him, but what's tricky is that so does Narcissa. The blond hair could just as easily come from her, and those grey eyes...(can't remember--does Lucius have blue eyes or grey? Do we even know?)
I refuse to believe Kreacher's brief stalking job was just there to create comedy effect (though it *really* was funny).
Yes, I thought that too. There's not necesarily any reason to bring Kreacher to Hogwarts at all. Dobby could just as easily have done the tailing, and Harry heads-off any attempts by Kreacher to tip Draco off. So I wonder if there is a set-up there beyond just showing the different perspective of Kreacher.
Back to your main point- I think the case of Snape/Blacks is different from that of Sirius/Potters mainly in that Snape does seem to think positively of at least one of his parents. Thus, I don't think he would feel too keenly to be considered a 'somewhat' family member, since he certainly had not denounced his own the way Sirius did.
Yeah, see I don't think it was a case of Snape looking to be adopted as a son like Sirius or Harry with the Weasleys. But I can see him wanting to be considered a member of the Black family in terms of their being this important wizarding family, you know? He may actually have seen it as a way of validating his mother's status as well. It seems more about validation and respect than affection.
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Grey. I don't know if Narcissa's are mentioned, though. Sirius has grey eyes, also, so it could be a double portion of that gene for Draco. (This is betting that Rowling understands even basic genetics, of course.)
So I wonder if there is a set-up there beyond just showing the different perspective of Kreacher.
It's interesting in itself that Harry, who freed a slave previously, now has his own, and not only that, but utilises him.
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I love Harry having a slave. Not only does he use him, but he calls for him when he's got Dobby. Why? I mean, he winds up getting Dobby with him because Dobby is fighting with Kreacher, but there's Harry literally thinking about the time Dobby came to see him, Dobby who helped him last year, and he calls the slave.
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but there's Harry literally thinking about the time Dobby came to see him, Dobby who helped him last year, and he calls the slave.
Yup, instead of getting a friend who he knew would only be too glad to help, he got a slave who would back-stab him given any chance to do the job. Nice thinking, and I enjoy a non-PC Harry much more X-D! Can't wait to find out what role Kreacher Black in terms of the Regulus and Draco arc in book 7, I saw it brought up somewhere that since Harry never withdrew the order to follow Draco, Kreacher might still be following the last Black boy as of now and thus would be the one who knows his where-about!
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I would if he didn't pull the 'OMG, Slughorn doesn't automatically believe all Muggleborns ROXXOR, teh racism!11!!' card. Ie. if I thought Rowling was doing it purposefully (it's not like Harry's ever been particularly politically active, unlike Hermione, which is why people going on about how pure and good his ideology is kind of baffles me - it seems fairly motivated by self-interest. He emphasises with people/creatures who assist him and how he feels have been Torturously Victimised like him.) rather than trying to have her double standard and eat it, which is my usual suspicion! ;)
I saw it brought up somewhere that since Harry never withdrew the order to follow Draco, Kreacher might still be following the last Black boy as of now and thus would be the one who knows his where-about!
That would be nice thinking! And pretty damn adorable, I'm afraid. (Kreacher's my favourite of the elves.)
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(checking)
'Snape did not look at Bellatrix. His black eyes were fixed upon Narcissa's tear-filled blue ones as she continued to clutch his hand.'
HBP US Spinner's End top of pg. 36
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I think in CoS we're told that Draco looks like his father not only because of his eyes and hair, but also because of the features.
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There's also the voice, though that might be learned (the drawling, I mean).