Severus Black

[sistermagpie]

I have this post on Sirius and Regulus and East of Eden I keep thinking about putting up. I think the trouble with it is that I can't stop babbling in it, just wandering off and wondering how things could be, given that we have zero to no canon about them.

Today, though, I was thinking about

In an interview about Six Feet Under Alan Ball, rather wonderfully, referred to the character of Rico Diaz as the tragically underappreciated adopted son or something to that affect. I loved that because I thought that was absolutely true--Rico was brought into the business by Nathaniel Fisher, Sr. He was the most interested in Fisher & Sons, the business, and he was the most talented (he was an artist at reconstruction). Yet he could never quite be part of the family, and so part of the business. In a very real way he was one of the the "Sons" of Fisher & Sons, but was never really seen that way. Mostly the way he was treated as a son, imo, was to be resented by the real sons when they felt inadequate.

That made me think about how I always felt Krycek was a lot like that in The X-files. Mulder and Spender were both the legitimate sons of Bill Mulder and CSM (or both of CSM, damn you, Chris Carter), and Krycek was the outsider fighting his way into the Conspiracy. Although Krycek was more determined and willing, it was Mulder and Spender who were the desirable ones because they were blood.

So what does that have to do with Snape? Well, nothing. Or not much, exactly. It's just that I was thinking about Snape and Sirius. The two characters have a pretty intense relationship in canon. We are first told by DD in PS/SS that Snape hates Harry because he and Harry's father hated each other. Certainly Snape hates Harry because he reminds him of James, and both Sirius and Snape are accused of mistaking Harry for his father. So while James and Sirius were best friends, and Snape and James hated each other, James also provides a sort of focal point around which Sirius and Snape hate each other.

However, since I'm somebody who really likes family sagas, and in HP I think all the family sagas are the tragedies on the Dark Side of the book (the Weasleys have their drama and their dysfunction, but it's mostly rooted in the present...it's just not the operatic drama of the Blacks), I can't help but think about Snape as a Black. Sirius leaves his family and is blasted off the family tree. He goes to a family on the "good" side, the Potters, and they become his family. In the present time Sirius is considered a member of that family, I would say.

But what about Snape? The post-HBP interest in Regulus begs the question of what, if any, relationship Snape and Regulus had. Regulus was the son who stayed on the family tree. Even after rejecting the DEs, he was still a loyal Black as far as we know. They were both DEs together. HBP makes a point of bringing Regulus into the fold, even if you don't think he is R.A.B. (which I think he is). Slughorn first brings him up as a Slytherin, "I got [Sirius'] brother Regulus when he came along." (He sees the Black boys as "a matched set.") I can't find the other quote, but I know there's somewhere where someone says that Regulus only lived a few days after leaving the DEs. Iow, although we never heard of the lad before OotP, everyone is on a first name basis with him. Well, that's part of the fun of a coming-of-age mystery. All the adults know more than you do, because they were all alive then. How was Harry to know he should worry about Regulus when he didn't know he existed, and then when he did know Sirius acted like he wasn't important?

It becomes very tempting to imagine Snape, who is the same age as Sirius, replacing him in a way in the family's eyes. We have no evidence that Regulus looked at Snape the way he had at Sirius, but there's just something interesting about Snape being at Grimmauld Place given that he was (or is) more in line with what the house represents. (It adds some nice possibilities for the fact he won't stay for dinner.)

The main reason for thinking of it is that in HBP Snape *is* there helping the Blacks. Narcissa (Black) Malfoy comes to him for help protecting her son (also a Black). Snape and Bellatrix (Black) LeStrange seem to know each other very well. Narcissa references Snape's friendship with Lucius (Sirius had earlier called Snape Lucius' lapdog), but while we know he and Lucius have a relationship it's the Blacks with whom Snape seems the most bound up: Draco, Narcissa, Bellatrix and Sirius. Snape may not be "family" in their Pureblood eyes, but their ties seem almost as close. Had Sirius not been a "blood traitor" he might have been the one his cousin, Narcissa, went to for protection for her son as head of the family. He might have been the one sniping with Bellatrix. (I can see him making a UV as well, if not necessarily this one.) Harry tells us Snape seems to like Draco the very first day of class. Has he met him before? Is it just that Draco was Lucius' son, or is Snape close with Draco's family? And by Draco's family, I mostly mean the Blacks, since those are the relatives we usually see in canon? This storyline is a family drama, with Voldemort being simply the outside influence. In fact, Voldemort seems to spend the whole year picking on Draco.

It makes me wonder, thinking back on OotP, if Snape ever spent time in the house at Grimmauld Place the way Sirius stayed with the Potters. He wasn't best buddies with Regulus as far as we know, but he may have gotten involved with the whole family during Voldemort's first rise. Fanon has often named Snape Draco's godfather and while this might not be literally true he is rather acting as one in HBP.

Maybe the other reason I wonder about this comes down to house elves. Besides being hilarious when he waxed rhapsodic over Draco's bone structure in HBP, Kreacher was also very serious in considering him a Black. Dobby betrayed the Malfoys to serve Harry Potter; Kreacher betrayed Sirius and would love to serve the last of the Blacks. I think maybe it's the fact that I think of Kreacher as part of the Black family that made me start thinking about Snape this way.

Snape may be a Prince, but he's a half-blood. He's not married--Pureblood ideology makes it impossible for him to marry himself into the kind of family he supported as a DE. But that doesn't mean he didn't fashion himself some place in that family. It's interesting for me to think that that might drive some of his confrontations with Sirius as well. Sirius may have left his family behind and said good riddance, but would he really like the idea of Snape getting a spot in it? I don't think it's too wild an idea to think that Snape would have coveted a spot in that family. He was a DE, he supported the ideology (I don't think you can surgically remove Pureblood Mania from the DE ideology so that Snape's not a bigot), he used Mudblood as an insult at least once. Sirius compares him to a Pureblood's lapdog. The name Half-blood Prince could mean he's a Prince among half-bloods, or it can also be Snape claiming a place for himself in the wizarding side of his family. He's a half-blood, but he's still a Prince. He did perhaps want a wizard family. (Can't blame the man there--look at Harry and Hermione!)

I have no idea what really went on. It just seems like there's some good potential for something in the fact that Snape plays such a huge part in the Black family drama of HBP, taking over as the patriarch in some ways, when Sirius was so defined by being an Outsider. Not that Snape's role goes completely smoothly. Bellatrix is obviously suspicious of him, but more on Voldemort's behalf. Draco is potentially even more interesting on that score, since just as Snape steps into a father's role Draco becomes rebellious and suspicious. One wonders if there's a "you're not my father!" lurking there somewhere, with Draco projecting some of his anger about his father onto Snape. I've always liked the fact that when Snape and Draco argue the thing that makes Draco lose it and stomp off in a huff is when Snape responds to his claim that Snape is trying to steal his glory by saying he knows Draco is upset about his father. Seems like Snape doesn't buy that glory stuff either.

Anyway, I guess I haven't actually said anything. It's just an interesting aspect to Snape and Sirius' relationship. In the fight between the two in OotP, Sirius, in one of his Black-est (and Draco-ish) moments, leans back in his chair lazily and, speaking to the ceiling, says, "You know, I think I'd prefer it if you didn't give orders here, Snape. It's my house, you see." This creates an "ugly flush" in Snape's pallid face. He then becomes quietly waspish, and hits Sirius with the charge of being useless. Harry later remembers this and claims Snape goaded Sirius into leaving the house, implying he was a coward. It's certainly true that this is Sirius' sore spot. Could Snape have pulled it out because Sirius had hit his own sore spot by claiming the Black House as his own and speaking to Snape like an unworthy guest in it? Not even a poor relation? That ugly flush seems a bit much for the remark Sirius made otherwise, at least to me. Perhaps Sirius was really was pulling out the Pureblood Black card, without Harry realizing it. If Snape longed to be a real Black, I could certainly see Sirius mocking him about it.

Comments

[musesfool.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally see this kind of connection between Sirius and Snape. Before we knew Snape was a half-blood, I used to have him being held up by Mrs. Black for Sirius's edification = "See what a loyal pureblood, a true Slytherin is like, and see what I got stuck with as a son" - and that Regulus and Snape would have bonded perhaps, as targets of Sirius's venom, as well as fellow-feeling on the whole pureblood issue.

Snape as half-blood is more problematic, but I do think Sirius *would* have played the Black family card over him, knowing that Snape desperately wants what Sirius has and repudiates (at least, the racist ideology of it - I don't think Sirius ever quite repudiates the influence of his name, and his breeding is very clear in his sense of noblesse oblige toward the Order and his whole bearing. I think Sirius, despite hating his family, very much would have traded on his name to get what he wanted), and thinking less of him for it, while Snape hates him for having it and not wanting it.

Which is kind of what you already said, so yes, I agree. *g*

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I'm sure "Jacob Have I Loved," by you, was a big reason I started thinking about this! I think Sirius would be a huge thing for Snape and Regulus to bond over. But thinking about it, I can imagine that Snape would realize that he would have to be careful, because I think no matter how much Regulus hated Sirius he was still his brother. Snape would probably realize this--there would be lines he couldn't cross regarding Sirius with Regulus, which might make him even more annoyed at Sirius.

I definitely see Sirius as very much a Black, even if he was publically against them. Well, we see this all the time in the world. Despite Sirius sneering at the idea that being a Black makes you practically royalty, Sirius often *does* act like the aristocrat he is. He's not even aware of it half the time. I think Snape's all too aware of that.

[etrangere.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes !

You articulate wonderfully a few ideas I'd been going in my head for a while (except better and more thoroughly than anything I did reach for)

You could probably write the whole of Snape's life with narrative around moments defined by some of Blacks.
The Sirius-Severus rivalry is so stark and interesting, and I absolutly adore the idea of Regulus turning to Severus when he looses his brother's attention (And how Snape would have relished that !)

I can't see Snape being "adopted" in the Black family tree in the same fashion as Sirius was by the Potters; but I could see him close to them, he definitly managed it with the Malfoy part of the family tree.
Bellatrix is another fish, I tend to see her and Lucius as two rival heads of the Death Eaters (with widely different interpretation of what it means to be one) Her distrust of Snape is definitly not very "familiar".

I'm still wondering if Tonks' "Black"ness will play out at some point, and how.

(by the way, seizing the occasion to say, hi, I friended your journal a few weeks ago because you write the best character analysis in this fandom)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You could probably write the whole of Snape's life with narrative around moments defined by some of Blacks.

Isn't it? It makes the first year so much more interesting. Harry turns up, yes, but then so does a new Black. I can definitely see Snape loving taking Regulus under his wing when he and Sirius were on the outs--and Regulus would probably like Sirius to see that knowing how Sirius hated Snape as well.

I can't see Snape being "adopted" in the Black family tree in the same fashion as Sirius was by the Potters; but I could see him close to them, he definitly managed it with the Malfoy part of the family tree.

Yes, that's what I see too. It's not like Sirius with the Potters...though that's also interesting because in a way it's even more binding. It doesn't seem like it was ever about Snape wanting a family in terms of wanting somebody else's parents. Also it's kind of interesting that Sirius ultimately "fails" the Potter family and gets labelled the big traitor, the outcast. Even when he gets out of jail people tend to remind him that he's *not* Harry's family. With Snape, although he's never openly considered family, everybody goes to him.

I'm still wondering if Tonks' "Black"ness will play out at some point, and how.

I wonder that too. When I was flipping through the book looking for that other Reg quote I couldn't find I was surprised to see Tonks refer to Draco as "that Malfoy boy." It's perfectly correct for her to call him that, it just suddenly struck me how they're cousins but she sees him as a complete stranger. That's the thing about Tonks, for me, that so far she's a Black in blood but in really no other way, because she's been brought up outside that world.

(by the way, seizing the occasion to say, hi, I friended your journal a few weeks ago because you write the best character analysis in this fandom)

Thanks!!

[s8219.livejournal.com]

This is great I never even thought about this before, but it makes a perfect sense in the way we've seen families in HP world act. And not just purebloods. Though the Weasley's are, Harry wants to be a Weasley and they want to consider him one as well.

:ponders:

We'll never get a declaration of this out of Snape, he's definitely too proud and too secretive to say he was in tight with Sirius' family and that Harry should stfu.

Sirius pulling the "Pureblood" card was also overlooked by me. I thought he was just being a jerk - which he was, but that's no reason to assume they weren't both trying to hit where it hurts from page one.

That the Black's are on such good terms with Snape would also make more sense than if they were just all Death Eaters. That's not really the kind of organization you go out together for picnic's to get to know one another better.

Yes, I agree. There must be something more to Snape's relationship with them. ::adds to memories::

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

This is great I never even thought about this before, but it makes a perfect sense in the way we've seen families in HP world act. And not just purebloods. Though the Weasley's are, Harry wants to be a Weasley and they want to consider him one as well.

Yeah, families are amazingly important in this world. And leaving your own family is always a big risk. You seem to lose your biggest support system.

Sirius pulling the "Pureblood" card was also overlooked by me. I thought he was just being a jerk - which he was, but that's no reason to assume they weren't both trying to hit where it hurts from page one.

Yes, I'd never thought of it this way until just now. And you're right, Snape probably wouldn't ever say anything to Harry about his connections to them--I wonder if they're very important to him. They certainly could be, given HBP. Actually, that's kind of intriguing about Snape. Harry has noticed that he seems to favor Draco, for instance, but he's kept any thoughts about Sirius' family completely hidden from Harry, even while loudly going off on Sirius himself.

That's not really the kind of organization you go out together for picnic's to get to know one another better.

LOL! Yes--absolutely!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_rp_zeal_/]

Yum yum yum! With the little information we have about the Snape/Black interactions, I think this post is as deep as we can get into the matter without becoming totally speculative.

I've always had very, very little interest in the house of Malfoy, mostly because Lucius for some reason is simply boring in my eyes (never got on the fanon bandwagon of Draco & his Malfoy Pride etc). Then came OOTP, Sirius' family immediately caught my attention, and imagine my excitement when I found out Draco was half a Black too! Now this is a family I could really sink my teeth into. While we've seen quite a bit of Black drama in HBP, there is bound to be more in the next book. Regulus certainly would be important, we likely would see more of Tonks and Andromeda, Narcissa and Bella would at least get some sort of resolution while Draco, I refuse to believe Kreacher's brief stalking job was just there to create comedy effect (though it *really* was funny).

Back to your main point- I think the case of Snape/Blacks is different from that of Sirius/Potters mainly in that Snape does seem to think positively of at least one of his parents. Thus, I don't think he would feel too keenly to be considered a 'somewhat' family member, since he certainly had not denounced his own the way Sirius did. But then again, I had overlooked the implication behind that "ugly flush", which like you said, was too strong an emotional response to an insult I'd have thought he could shrug off easily? Hmmm...... The only thing I can safely say is never underestimate Snape's role in *any* arc or sub-arc in Potterverse (all roads lead to Snape!), and a Snape who was some sort of friend and/or brother to Regulus? I'd *love* to read this fic!!!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yum yum yum! With the little information we have about the Snape/Black interactions, I think this post is as deep as we can get into the matter without becoming totally speculative.

Heh! Yes, I was really trying to reign in the speculation, since anything we imagine has to be that. There's precious little actual information there, but it does seem possible that the foundation is being laid for some.

I've always had very, very little interest in the house of Malfoy, mostly because Lucius for some reason is simply boring in my eyes (never got on the fanon bandwagon of Draco & his Malfoy Pride etc).

I was the same way, and it always sort of surprised me. I don't know whether it was that I found Lucius boring or not, but for some reason it always just seemed less interesting than I'd expect it to be. I jumped for joy to find them on that tapestry, though. It's also kind of interesting that in a way Lucius was such a misdirection. We're told Draco looks just like him, but what's tricky is that so does Narcissa. The blond hair could just as easily come from her, and those grey eyes...(can't remember--does Lucius have blue eyes or grey? Do we even know?)

I refuse to believe Kreacher's brief stalking job was just there to create comedy effect (though it *really* was funny).

Yes, I thought that too. There's not necesarily any reason to bring Kreacher to Hogwarts at all. Dobby could just as easily have done the tailing, and Harry heads-off any attempts by Kreacher to tip Draco off. So I wonder if there is a set-up there beyond just showing the different perspective of Kreacher.

Back to your main point- I think the case of Snape/Blacks is different from that of Sirius/Potters mainly in that Snape does seem to think positively of at least one of his parents. Thus, I don't think he would feel too keenly to be considered a 'somewhat' family member, since he certainly had not denounced his own the way Sirius did.

Yeah, see I don't think it was a case of Snape looking to be adopted as a son like Sirius or Harry with the Weasleys. But I can see him wanting to be considered a member of the Black family in terms of their being this important wizarding family, you know? He may actually have seen it as a way of validating his mother's status as well. It seems more about validation and respect than affection.

[pinkfinity.livejournal.com]

Such a gorgeous collection of "what if's"... And there's even more that I would love to fic, if I ever had the time...
What if Reg is/was Draco's godfather?
What if Snape and Reg decided to leave the DE's at the same time and did some sort of Unbreakable Vow about it? What if it's that which keeps Snape tied to the Order even now?
What if Dobby was Narcissa's before her marriage? Could Dobby, not Kreacher, have accompanied Reg in the cave? Could it have been both elves?
Could Reg have factored into Sirius's reason for suspecting Remus was the traitor?

And so it goes...

[isiscolo.livejournal.com]

What if Snape and Reg decided to leave the DE's at the same time and did some sort of Unbreakable Vow about it?

Ooh, I like this idea!

I have always imagined that Snape was envious of Sirius, because Sirius had the family position and wealth that Snape coveted, but Sirius didn't want it. I imagine that Regulus and Snape were friends. bethbethbeth wrote a lovely fic about them.

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

Came over from Hogwarts_Today.

This is a fabulous theory. I'm still trying to process it all in my mind, because I'm so used to thinking of Snape bound to the Malfoy family, so it's a little odd to look at it from the Black family perpective.

I still have reservations on the idea; aside from the aura of loneliness that seems to surround Snape's character throughout the books, I know it's been said before, but you really have to wonder if the family would be able to get past the blood issue in order to accept Snape. Unlike the Malfoys, whose main pride as a family aside from wealth and connections seems to be that their entire family has been in Slytherin (which Draco, at least up till CoS, apparently bragged about often), the Blacks' ideology seems very centric on the eradication of Muggles from wizarding society; as Sirius insinuated in OotP, they did not care much for Voldemort's methods, but felt he had the right idea. I think one of the great-aunts tried to have a ban lifted on Muggle-baiting or something. This question also begs another, about whether certain members of the family were even aware of Snape's Muggle heritage (it's the impression I got from Bellatrix expressing surprise at Snape's Muggle dwellings, despite the fact that, according to Sirius, he was a part of her gang in school).

Granted, though, it does not seem to have been a widely-known fact at all; rather than calling Snape on slight hypocrisy for his labelling Lily a Mudblood, James merely got up in arms over his use of the word in general. Despite knowing that Snape is a brilliant Potions Master, was in the same year as him, and (presumably) having friends who used spells from Snape's book, Remus does not seem to draw any possible connection to Snape's being the Halfblood Prince at Christmas.

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

Despite knowing that Snape is a brilliant Potions Master, was in the same year as him, and (presumably) having friends who used spells from Snape's book, Remus does not seem to draw any possible connection to Snape's being the Halfblood Prince at Christmas.

Remus is, and has been, a ungrateful, self- centered liar.

If that is too harsh, than perhaps economical with the truth is better.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I like it.

I read Spinner's End and thought that maybe Snape had once had a thing for Narcissa (the way he acted, the way she played it). But this works every bit as well, without the problem of someone burning a candle for seventeen years or more.

I can almost see it, where Snape is the kid allowed to play with Pureblood Regulus, like all those children we just don't know in the news reels, being invited to Shirley Temple's birthday parties. A playmate for the scion, a privilege and some fun for the disadvantaged friend. And, as the closest thing the WW has for aristocracy, the Blacks showing that 'noblesse oblige'. Maybe the Blacks had some sort of Protector/Obliged relationship with the Prince family? I keep on thinking of an article by Red Hen about the old system of family retainers here.

It's definitely something to chew on. Snape's revamped himself into something more than a poor kid with poor speech habits. He may have been eager to step into a role as 'companion' or 'retainer' to someone a cut above by birth. He gets the benefits without overstepping his place. And he does strike me as the sort of person who is rigidly set into that sort of system.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I can almost see it, where Snape is the kid allowed to play with Pureblood Regulus, like all those children we just don't know in the news reels, being invited to Shirley Temple's birthday parties.

Hee! What a great comparison.

Also there's lots of examples of families who might be basically bigotted but still had certain people of unacceptable backgrounds as friends. They'd be aware that they weren't on the same level but could still appreciate them for what they were. For instance, they might find it very amusing for their son to have a Jewish friend, even knowing that marrying a Jew was unthinkable. I can see Snape occuping that sort of strange position.

[idlerat.livejournal.com]

This is a lovely speculation- I love the idea of young Snape in the Black household. And yes about Draco and the Blacks, and especially that Sirius sounds like Draco at that moment!

It's amazing how vivid these untold background stories are in HP...

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I admit I love it when Sirius sounds like Draco.:-)

[arwencordelia.livejournal.com]

It's interesting for me to think that that might drive some of his confrontations with Sirius as well. Sirius may have left his family behind and said good riddance, but would he really like the idea of Snape getting a spot in it?

That does give all kinds of new meaning to Sirius' comment in the kitchen about being "his house", doesn't it? And it can work both ways, as far as driving confrontation goes. Snape, who already thinks Sirius to be arrogant (rightly so, by some indications), might have thought it the height of arrogance for someone who grew up with everything to throw it so blithely away.

Sirius may leave his family and forego his inheritance, but he still had all the good things that Snape didn't. I don't mean just the material stuff (which Snape lacked, and Sirius took for granted to the point of considering it unimportant). There are also less tangible things like the opportunities for work, advancement, whatever, that are Sirius' for the taking, by virtue of his being a pureblood and a Black.

Snape, work as hard as he might, would have still been limited, being a half-blood of no known name. Slughorn is a good case in point - he would have liked to have had the "set" of both Black boys, but apparently showed no such interest in Snape (his ability in potions notwithstanding). And, as unfair as Snape can be to his own students, he still seems to keenly feel any unfairness directed at him.

[dphearson.livejournal.com]

And, as unfair as Snape can be to his own students, he still seems to keenly feel any unfairness directed at him.

Not only that- but the acknowledgement of unfairness is very key here. This is a scoiety that okay with unfairness when directed to peopel who deserve- poor, no named, greasy people. Ah, but when it happens to the clean people, well.

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

You know what I would love to see? A fic or a meta reading that seriously addressed the possibility that the Great Epic of the WW, the one with real scope and grandeur and all that, is not the Potter story at all, but the Fall and Redemption of the House of Black. I love the way the books hint at these vast pre-existing narratives in the background that seem to rival the surface story for emotional significance and compelling interest. And Harry's own journey out of narcissism and toward an adult sense of proportion might involve falling into a sort of fascination with -- or recognizing that his own story is a part of -- something bigger and more significant than his own immediate adventures. Not Hamlet, but an attendant lord . . . Much like Snape, maybe.

Behind your theory about Snape and the Blacks, I also sense a healthy resistance to the exaggerated role of Lucius in the fandom imagination. Lucius is the DE we've come to know best, but consequently there is a tendency to pile too much significance on to him, maybe -- Voldemort's right hand, the secret owner of the Riddle house, whatever. So to posit that Snape's strongest connection is with Narcissa and her family, that his affection for Draco flows through his affection for her rather than his connection to Lucius, and that he viscerally shares in the family's rejection of Sirius, redresses this balance and re-grounds Snape in a really interesting way.

Your speculations about Snape as not-quite-a-surrogate-Black create some incredibly rich characterization possibilities for Snape, I think. So: Snape, embittered half-blood, sort of lets himself dally with the idea of being considered an honorary Black, perhaps makes an investment in that role, only to find that he is never quite accepted, that they turn to him for help but don't quite honor him fully. (From Hamlet to Othello . . . is there a wound, here, that explains Snape's ultimate if conflicted loyalty to Dumbledore?)

And now I'm thinking of turning this back against the Potters, and Snape's feelings about James. Maybe, just as the purebloods hate the Weasleys for letting the side down, they hate the Potters for being egoistic, incompetent adventurers who can't deliver on their promises, who only spoil and ruin things for other people without creating a workable alternative. So James is the force that helped seduce Sirius away from his family but couldn't protect him in the end. Maybe he or Lily had a role in pulling Regulus away from the DE's, too, with similar catastrophic results. And Snape shares in the Black family loathing all things Potter. And now, here comes Harry, with the same unthinking self-absorbtion, the same tone-deafness to the Black epic, trying to make the story all about himself.

Hmmm. Now I'm sort of getting way out there, but it's fun to just brainstorm ideas about this kind of thing. This is a really, really provocative and interesting post.

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

And Snape shares in the Black family loathing all things Potter.

But -- and this is an issue I've carried around for a while, and figure I can probably bring up here -- does the Black family loathe the Potter family, at all, even in the same way as they loathe the Weasleys? The Weasleys and the Potters always seem to be lumped together in fandom for some reason, when I've never had any indication that they should be. The Weasleys were apparently blasted off of the tapestry a long time ago, but we only discovered this because Arthur Weasley, at least, is from a distant branch of the Black family. Whereas the Potters never have been on the tapestry (I'm assuming Sirius would have said something if they had been, and it's unlikely that every pureblooded family is linked in some way), so how can you be a blood traitor to a faction of purebloods you have never belonged to? The use of the term traitor is significant to the Weasleys, which is why I can see it generating hate and/or anger, as they were once a part of the family, but the significance lessens when applied in fandom to the Potters.

Thus, if we can assume that hate for the Potters doesn't generate from any traitorous aspect of their conduct, what does it generate from? Or...does it generate at all? We have nothing to indicate that there are any sort of feelings between both families, whether in distant past or in Marauder-era past. Mrs. Black has no significant reaction to Harry that she doesn't have to every other member of the Order, despite his looking like the boy who apparently "seduced" her son away from the dark side; Kreacher's initial reaction to both Harry's name and person is curiousity over the kid who defeated Voldemort (later becoming disgust over ; we don't even know for sure whether Regulus was resentful towards James Potter for his friendship with Sirius, any more than we know whether Bellatrix's taunting of "baby Potter" was on behalf of her lord or her family, or whether Sirius joining the Potter family was a cause or a consequence of being blasted off of the tapestry.

There just doesn't seem to be much of a history present, even when including Sirius's defection.

[valentinenoir.livejournal.com]

i'm far too tired at the moment to type up much of a response but, oh, is this ever great!

i enjoyed reading it and i totally agree!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thank you!!! And I'm really glad you liked it.:-)

[joyfulgirl1013.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, I especially like the way you tie Harry's desire to fit in with the Weasleys into Snape possible desire to be a member of the Black family. I mean, not to mention, in both cases you've sort of got the perfect son turned traitor (Regulus in the Blacks' case and Percy in the Weasleys'), and I wonder what that really means. I don't actually have the books here with me, but I sort of feel as though after Percy left, Mrs. Weasley really took Harry under her wing and started bringing him into the fold. After all, it was Harry and not Percy who ended up at the table for Christmas dinner. And how interesting would it be if it turned out that Snape (like someone mentioned above) had liked Narcissa at some point, sort of in the way that Harry likes Ginny now? Potential parallels are endless! Great essay, really. Thanks for writing it. Mind if I link?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks--and link away.:-)

You really see when you look at the whole series how important it is to have a family, I think. It seems to be the basis of everything. A Muggleborn with no connections is really floating around, vulnerable, I think. Hermione really lucked out attaching herself to the Weasleys and Harry--and of course so did Harry luck out in getting the Weasleys. Though even he benefits from his own family connections.

It's kind of funny that Harry never looks into those connections, actually. I know he can't have any living relatives or else he wouldn't be stuck with the Dursleys, but the Potters ought to be related in some way to other Purebloods. It's just as a Muggleborn Harry doesn't really see those connections as clearly as the Purebloods do. At least Purebloods like the Blacks who are hyper-aware of this sort of thing.

[q-spade.livejournal.com]

Interesting theory – the idea of Snape ingratiating himself with the House of Black, with varying degrees of success. It'd be fun to look back at this post after Book 7 comes out, to compare & contrast the various theories with what actually gets mentioned about the Black family as the series is tied up.

Draco is potentially even more interesting on that score, since just as Snape steps into a father's role Draco becomes rebellious and suspicious. One wonders if there's a "you're not my father!" lurking there somewhere, with Draco projecting some of his anger about his father onto Snape.

Not sure I would say "just" stepped into a father's role; as Head of Slytherin House Snape has been in loco parentis to Draco for six years now, and is undoubtedly someone admired and looked up to by him. Draco may be projecting angst about Lucius' situation, but his emotional reaction to Snape suggests he feels far more comfortable being himself – saying what he thinks and feels – with Snape than he ever would with his actual father. (I'm reminded of an earlier post of yours about this very topic! :D) And I honestly don't see that as class-related or blood-related; Draco isn't treating Snape as an underling here.

If Draco resembles Regulus in terms of personality, and if there was indeed a strong connection between Snape and Regulus, that adds more layers to the complexity of the Draco/Snape relationship. Only time (and Book 7) will tell.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

If Draco resembles Regulus in terms of personality, and if there was indeed a strong connection between Snape and Regulus, that adds more layers to the complexity of the Draco/Snape relationship. Only time (and Book 7) will tell.

Now I'm getting pictures of the Snape and Draco dynamic being much like the Sirius and Harry dynamic. With all the baggage that carries with it. Sirius had been accused of confusing Harry with lost friend James, for instance, could Draco (or friends outside the relationship) see Snape as occasionally confusing Draco with lost friend Regulus?

If Snape sees similarities between Regulus and Draco, he might be able to connect to Draco on a more visceral level, and if Snape is ESG!, getting around Draco seeing him AK Dumbledore, he might hold out hope that Draco could be brought around to Dumbledore's side. In any way, if the relationship is anything like the Sirius & Harry relationship, it puts a whole 'nother layer on the Spinners End vow: Snape (!) acting as Sirius might if Harry was in a similar situation...

And, will this bring Snape to the same ultimate place as Sirius?

[verseblack.livejournal.com]

Just a quick note to say how much I enjoyed your post! I've thought of Snape as having some links to the Blacks myself because he seems to me so very much like Phineas.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! Yeah, he does sound like Phineas, doesn't he!

Here from daily_snitch.

[madzilla.livejournal.com]

Wonderful essay. The Black brothers are my very favourite characters in the HP series, I'm intrigued by them.

I think it's entirely possibly that much of the animosity between Snape and Sirius was to do with the Pureblood issue, not just the mutual hatred between James and Snape. It's very likely, as you say, that Snape was envious of Sirius's pureblood ancestry, and the fact that Sirius shunned that and turned away from it would have infuriated him to no end. Snape being the same age as Sirius, it's also a possibility that Regulus turned to him as a sort of elder brother figure when Sirius turned out to be so 'undesirable' and stopped taking any interest in him. Even though he had a poor relationship with Regulus, I can't see Sirius being happy about this - though he'd probably have said he didn't give a toss, underneath I think he'd have been concerned, for a while.

I also thought there must be some connection between Snape's turning away form the DEs and Regulus's death (they happened at about the same time I believe), though I don't know what that could be. There are hundreds of ideas out there, each as likely (or unlikely) as the next.

I realy hope we find out more about the brothers and the Black family in the final book - I imagine we'll learn a fair bit about Regulus. Can't wait. :)

It's an interesting idea, too, that there might be some similarities between Draco and Regulus - temperament, perhaps, or even the situation they were found in (working for/tested by Voldemort at a young age). Snape no doubt remembers what heppened to Regulus, and may even feel responsible for it (or who knows, even *be* responsible for it?) - which might be another reason for his protection of Draco, and their good relationship so far through Draco's years at Hogwarts.

Thanks for such a thought-provoking post; I find all this fascinating.

Re: Here from daily_snitch.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Icon love!!

I love the Black brothers too--even when we just had that one line to go on, I thought Sirius' casual dismissal of Regulus was masking something very different underneath.

Snape and Regulus bonding in the wake of Sirius' defection is just full of delicious possibilities. Snape would have to tread carefully, I think, in the way that Snape could. Because no matter what the bad blood between them, I just instinctively feel that there would be some bond there. After all, Regulus was the Black who was sickened by Voldemort's methods, and his love for family and Sirius may have contributed to that. So I think Snape would be aware of the bond between them and probably watching it change over the years.

I do hope we find out more about Regulus in the next book, and that he and Draco sort of illuminate each other. It seems like Regulus is the family member who could most understand what Draco's going through, so it's a shame that Draco maybe doesn't know that. I find myself hoping that the R.A.B. note somehow connects to Draco in some way. Not that Draco had anything to do with it, obviously, but that the fact that Regulus took the horcrux is something Draco must know for some reason--and Snape would be a great person to tell us about that, if he knows it.

[ariadneelda.livejournal.com]

Your interpretation about Sirius and Snape's fight in OotP makes SO much sense. Yes, I can really see that.

Wonderful essay! You make some really excellent points.

Whenever I see your name on the Snitch I always come over here to read. Your analyses are always so well thought. :)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! What a nice thing to say!

Here from the DS

[athenakt.livejournal.com]

Some great ideas I hadn't thought about till now; you brought up concepts that put a new spin on things since HBP. I'll have to do some re-reading, methinks... Well written, btw.

Re: Here from the DS

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm really glad you liked it.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

I'm not convinced that Snape *was* on particularly good terms with the Blacks. All of his known associations with the Blacks are through the Malfoys. His known relations with the Blacks are all pretty uneasy.

My take on it was that Bellatrix and her yearmates were *exactly* the 7th years that Snape showed up at Hogwarts knowing more hexes than that Sirius was refering to when he gave us that info in GoF. He was sorted into their House and was probably as naive as the next 11-year-old. They buttered him up, picked his brains, and dumped him by the time the year was over. He has neither forgotten nor forgiven them for it either. Their association was also what got him targeted by the Marauders. After all, anyone who cousin Bella takes up with *has* to be a bad egg.

Lucius Malfoy, a 6th year, was in with that circle, and indeed may have been their connection to the DEs, since Sirius states with considerable conviction thaqt his own parents were not DEs (too old to have been at school with Riddle) and we haven't heard anything about his aunt and uncle being DEs either. But the proto-DEs at Hogwarts in the day may well have been scattered all through the whole 7 years, and there may have been others in 7th year. (It looks very much like the first DE in the family could well have been Bellatrix herself - and dragged her sister and younger cousin in with her.) Malfoy, who has a bit better sense than Bellatrix, didn't just use Snape and drop him. He saw him as a potentially valuable resource, and cultivated the association through patronage through Snape's 2nd year.

Ergo; Snape's long association with the Malfoys, and the rather nasty vibe of resentment/gloating between him and Bellatrix. It's all too easy to read in a subtext of the tables having turned between them. I'm not convinced that it's all illusory.

As to Regulus; we've really no solid data to base anything on. He couldn't have been more than 2 years younger than Sirius in order to have become a DE and died by some (as yet unspecified) date in 1980, and he certainly *knew* Snape. And given that the younger of the two cousins married Lucius Malfoy, he probably ended up associating with Snape to some degree. But having been taken advantage of by Bellatrix in his 1st year, I wouldn't assume that Snape had a lot of time for Regulus back at Hogwarts.

Another factor we don't have a handle on is how much younger Narcissia is than her sisters. Andromeda has to have been Lucius's age and year in order to have a 22-year-old daughter by the opening or OotP. But Narcissia could be any age from 4 years older than Snape to 2 years younger. If Lucius and Narcissia are close in age, then Lucius would probably have convinced her that Snape was worth keeping an eye on, and keeping him on your string. If she was a good deal younger than the two older sisters, Lucius may have had less influence on her treatment of Snape.

Of course he could have just had a crush on her, and if she was already associated with Lucius, never acted on it.

But if we can assume (provisionally) that Regulus made it out of the sea cave alive, he would have almost certainly summoned Kreachur to help him get to the best potions expert he knew.

Snape may be involved in the business of the false Horcrux, but I don't think he managed to get much usable information out of Regulus before the kid fled.

[pilly2009.livejournal.com]

Snape may be involved in the business of the false Horcrux, but I don't think he managed to get much usable information out of Regulus before the kid fled.

This caught my eye: I'm not entirely sure how reliable and accurate the HP Lexicon is seen by fandom, but said Lexicon places Regulus's defection from the Death Eaters and Trelawney's interview with Dumbledore (which Snape overheard and later went on to tell Voldemort) in the same year, making it very hard to believe that the two were working together on escaping the Death Eaters.

[starpaint.livejournal.com]

The one thing that keeps me from seeing this - and it's a really big thing - is that Snape has seemed so independent and almost scornful of real relationships in the past. And that's not really accurate; he's not really an outcast among the faculty (see interaction with McGonagall in OotP) and we knew he had some sort of connection to the Malfoys for some time. But the way Rowling's described him, he's stuck out like a sore thumb. He's obviously antagonistic a lot of the time, which doesn't attract a lot of friendships. His interaction with Draco prior to HBP was as close to friendly as we've seen him, but distant, and there's an obviously large gap between them in HBP, so it doesn't seem to me that they're very close. The diction in his conversation with Bellatrix and Narcissa is very, very formal. That could be habit among the Death Eaters or a practical choice to get information to the readers, but it makes the relationship between them seem more tenuous. And there's been no indication that he's particularly close to anyone else. And yeah, Harry wouldn't know about anything that happened outside of school, but I've got a strong impression of him as a lonely man.

I don't know. I think you've made very good points on how Snape might have interacted with the Blacks and Regulus in particular. And I can certainly see Snape being brought into the fold of the Blacks as a friend and, um, business partner, of Regulus. That'd have its own advantages in terms of status; something like a patronage system. But I'd be hesitant to call Snape a surrogate family member, and Snape seems so cautious about his estrangement from the Muggle and pureblood worlds that I doubt he'd think of himself in those terms, either.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

His interaction with Draco prior to HBP was as close to friendly as we've seen him, but distant, and there's an obviously large gap between them in HBP, so it doesn't seem to me that they're very close.

Really? I thought their relationships seemed stronger than ever in HBP.

Not that this means they aren't formal. See, I don't think that whatever we're talking about is close in terms of them being very intimate in an affectionate way, the way we usually think of as a surrogate family member. That's partially why I started out thinking if characters like Rico in 6FU (though he isn't a good analogy either), because the thing with them is that they *aren't* family. That's more what defines them. So in HBP it seems like Snape is a surrogate family member simply because the Blacks are so dependent on him--Narcissa goes to him for help, Bellatrix is afraid of his taking her position, Draco is fighting his protection but needs it. He's become very bound up with their family, whether either side wants it or not.

Whether that means he was bound up with them before I agree is in no way canonical. He has a history with them, obviously, with Bellatrix and Sirius. Reg was a DE around the same time and they were at school together. He greets Narcissa as someone he's met before, at least, and he is an old friend of her husband's and her kids' teacher. I tend to think they've never been this bound up with each other (though Snape could still have had feelings about their family before now, considering his relationship with Sirius). But now that they are it's like Snape is the man of the Black House.

[guza.livejournal.com]

In blue so that it matches your journal!

Happy Birthday!

Hope all your wishes come true!

<33333333

It's weird. Today we are a year older (or tommorow for you due to the time difference I think).

Hope you have a great day. :))

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

HAPPY BIRTHDAY RIGHT BACK TO YOU!!

Wait, that's weird. We have the same birthday, only yours is today and mine is tomorrow. Cooool.

Have a great day!!

[likethemodel.livejournal.com]

And perhaps some of Snape's venom towards Harry comes from the fact that while Lily was a muggleborn, in many people's eyes Harry's as good as a pureblood.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Good point. It just really does seem like fandom tends to want to gloss over any possible blood issues with Snape, despite his actually having been a DE. I'm surprised at the way it seems to almost be the default opinion to assume he was never really that taken in by blood purity.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

C'mon over! http://www.livejournal.com/users/slinkhard/33016.html

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

OH POOR WANNABE BLACK SNAPE!
And Sirius was a Black, and didn't want to be, and thought he was so pathetic, and... oh, I've never thought about it like that and it breaks my HEART!
Ah, and Draco's suspicion of the adults he always believed were on his side parallels Harry's disillusionment with the Ideal James and to an extent with Dumbledore and Sirius, doesn't it? I need to re-read OotP to examine it as Harry's Journey vs. HBP, Draco's Journey.
Squee. Love your thoughts, as ever. I also have slightly exciting news. I shall tell you it soon.

[sarahtales.livejournal.com]

Also. Um. P.S. Happy birthday, my dearest dear. I'm so sorry I missed it! The News has been keeping me off the Net.