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So yeah, I'm going to write about Avatar again--and again I feel like I'm just stating the obvious but nothing excites me more than a story that just stuff really really well so I'm satisfied!
So...Zuko. Oh, what a satisfying story. ::sigh:: Especially having just finished the 7 books taking place in the Potterverse, aka "The Land that Redemption Forgot (but if you earn it our hero may grant you some measure of approval and won't that be wonderful for you)." I was listening to ATLA commentaries the other day, and the creators talked about how they were kind of surprised when fans figured out where Zuko was headed back in the first season. Not that this bothered them, because it wasn't about the surprise but how they got there. (And that alone makes me love them, because what is the obsession people have with surprise at the expense of all else sometimes? If all you've got going for you is the surprise, there's no reason to think about it later.)
Anyway, the creators said how they got all these angry letters when Zuko chose "evil" in CoD, but they felt that was the only choice he could have made at that moment, as he was angry and confused and angry and confused people make bad decisions.
But here's what I love about it, is that it's not just about redemption but maturity...and in fact those two are linked together, which is one of my favorite pairings! I love it when stories show that being a good person is actually smart and intelligent and badass. If Zuko had chosen to side with Aang and Iroh et al. in CoD--well, it still could have worked, but he wouldn't have really switched sides because he would still be confused. His choice there would have been less about him truly choosing the Avatar and more about him choosing one father (Iroh) over the other (Ozai as represented by Azula). He would be doing what Uncle thought was right and also still following along his muddled ideas about fate. If they had done that, I think they would have needed Zuko to waiver and be untrustworthy to the group until they truly finished that part of the arc. They knew he wasn't done changing yet. He was still in the middle. (Iroh was not completely correct—this wasn’t Zuko’s crossroads. He was rushing it.)
I mean, at that point in the series he's admitted that he has these impulses towards protecting or helping Aang and others, that he isn't so sure about the war. But he still isn't sure those aren't just weaknesses that keep him from being a good Fire Nation Prince. Iroh tells him that he's stronger and wiser and freer than he was before, and he's right, but Zuko doesn't see that yet so it’s just Iroh trying to get him to take the path he (Iroh) thinks is best for him. (Zuko’s still operating under that pesky Bad Faith!!) Actually, it's kind of interesting given Iroh's own past and relationship with Zuko that he always avoids the real thing that Zuko's about, which is his father. Azula doesn't--she jumps right in about how if he fights with her he'll have his father's love. That's what even later Zuko admits it was more about for him. I wonder if Iroh just didn't want to go there. Because he can't really say to him: "That stuff you long for as a son? Not gonna happen."
In fact, the whole Iroh/Zuko father/son relationship probably deserves its own post the way it informs that whole relationship and especially Iroh's actions imo, while at the same time Zuko has to work out his dad issues completely on his own with no overt help from Iroh.
The creators just totally hit a personal story kink of mine by not having Zuko switch sides here where he'd be listening to Iroh. He's not just Iroh's successful project. In order to make a strong decision he had to be thinking completely for himself for the first time. So we get that whole section where he returns to the Fire Nation and still feels uneasy and angry. But it takes him a while to really know why. At first he keeps trying to find old reasons for his anger, ones that fit his old child pattern. If he just feels badly for not doing what Iroh wanted he's back to where he was with his father and can lash out at Iroh. Only Iroh refuses to play that role. Zuko’s last scenes before he decides to switch sides play on that even more--he's angry because he's been cut out of the war meeting and sulks that he won't go--that's the sort of thing he was always angry about before. But then it turns out he has been invited and they're waiting for him and he's still not really happy.
He's trying to fit himself back into his old role at court but he's outgrown it. Unfortunately he has not grown to fit the new role he's being offered either. So ultimately, as he tells Sokka in TBR, leaving the Fire Nation isn't that hard because it's the only thing that feels right for who he is. It's hard, but staying would be a lot harder.
Of course, just because he's not just making decisions based on what Iroh thinks doesn't mean Iroh's not still a role model and Zuko can't still imagine what Iroh would say when he's confused. That's another thing I love in the post-DBS Zuko, the way he can't ever be Iroh when he's trying to be (his imitation in WAT and "silver sandwich" blathering in TBR) and yet doesn't notice the times when he actually is being Iroh. When he tries to imitate him he focuses on Iroh's personal quirks of language, using metaphors from the natural world and speaking in abstractions. He sucks at that because that's not how he talks.
But at times when he's just being sincere and passing on his own wisdom gained through experience (which is what Iroh was trying to do) he can be quite the guru! Just in more straightforward language. Like his speech about honor when he approaches the GAang the second time to explain why he wants to join them or his advice to Sokka on what not to base his decisions on in TBR. He isn't aware of it, since he's still speaking in his own straightforward way, but the concepts can still be confusing. He even gets a confused reaction from Sokka in TBR like he might have given to Uncle in the past, but with Sokka's personality ("Is this supposed to be helping?") when he talks about failure.
Zuko's been wonderfully goofier since embracing his Avatar love, since he's not taking himself so seriously and isn't so afraid to show when he's at a loss or make mistakes. But in the moments where he knows what he's doing, he's far more interesting and charismatic than his old, robotic self. Zuko's cool!
So...Zuko. Oh, what a satisfying story. ::sigh:: Especially having just finished the 7 books taking place in the Potterverse, aka "The Land that Redemption Forgot (but if you earn it our hero may grant you some measure of approval and won't that be wonderful for you)." I was listening to ATLA commentaries the other day, and the creators talked about how they were kind of surprised when fans figured out where Zuko was headed back in the first season. Not that this bothered them, because it wasn't about the surprise but how they got there. (And that alone makes me love them, because what is the obsession people have with surprise at the expense of all else sometimes? If all you've got going for you is the surprise, there's no reason to think about it later.)
Anyway, the creators said how they got all these angry letters when Zuko chose "evil" in CoD, but they felt that was the only choice he could have made at that moment, as he was angry and confused and angry and confused people make bad decisions.
But here's what I love about it, is that it's not just about redemption but maturity...and in fact those two are linked together, which is one of my favorite pairings! I love it when stories show that being a good person is actually smart and intelligent and badass. If Zuko had chosen to side with Aang and Iroh et al. in CoD--well, it still could have worked, but he wouldn't have really switched sides because he would still be confused. His choice there would have been less about him truly choosing the Avatar and more about him choosing one father (Iroh) over the other (Ozai as represented by Azula). He would be doing what Uncle thought was right and also still following along his muddled ideas about fate. If they had done that, I think they would have needed Zuko to waiver and be untrustworthy to the group until they truly finished that part of the arc. They knew he wasn't done changing yet. He was still in the middle. (Iroh was not completely correct—this wasn’t Zuko’s crossroads. He was rushing it.)
I mean, at that point in the series he's admitted that he has these impulses towards protecting or helping Aang and others, that he isn't so sure about the war. But he still isn't sure those aren't just weaknesses that keep him from being a good Fire Nation Prince. Iroh tells him that he's stronger and wiser and freer than he was before, and he's right, but Zuko doesn't see that yet so it’s just Iroh trying to get him to take the path he (Iroh) thinks is best for him. (Zuko’s still operating under that pesky Bad Faith!!) Actually, it's kind of interesting given Iroh's own past and relationship with Zuko that he always avoids the real thing that Zuko's about, which is his father. Azula doesn't--she jumps right in about how if he fights with her he'll have his father's love. That's what even later Zuko admits it was more about for him. I wonder if Iroh just didn't want to go there. Because he can't really say to him: "That stuff you long for as a son? Not gonna happen."
In fact, the whole Iroh/Zuko father/son relationship probably deserves its own post the way it informs that whole relationship and especially Iroh's actions imo, while at the same time Zuko has to work out his dad issues completely on his own with no overt help from Iroh.
The creators just totally hit a personal story kink of mine by not having Zuko switch sides here where he'd be listening to Iroh. He's not just Iroh's successful project. In order to make a strong decision he had to be thinking completely for himself for the first time. So we get that whole section where he returns to the Fire Nation and still feels uneasy and angry. But it takes him a while to really know why. At first he keeps trying to find old reasons for his anger, ones that fit his old child pattern. If he just feels badly for not doing what Iroh wanted he's back to where he was with his father and can lash out at Iroh. Only Iroh refuses to play that role. Zuko’s last scenes before he decides to switch sides play on that even more--he's angry because he's been cut out of the war meeting and sulks that he won't go--that's the sort of thing he was always angry about before. But then it turns out he has been invited and they're waiting for him and he's still not really happy.
He's trying to fit himself back into his old role at court but he's outgrown it. Unfortunately he has not grown to fit the new role he's being offered either. So ultimately, as he tells Sokka in TBR, leaving the Fire Nation isn't that hard because it's the only thing that feels right for who he is. It's hard, but staying would be a lot harder.
Of course, just because he's not just making decisions based on what Iroh thinks doesn't mean Iroh's not still a role model and Zuko can't still imagine what Iroh would say when he's confused. That's another thing I love in the post-DBS Zuko, the way he can't ever be Iroh when he's trying to be (his imitation in WAT and "silver sandwich" blathering in TBR) and yet doesn't notice the times when he actually is being Iroh. When he tries to imitate him he focuses on Iroh's personal quirks of language, using metaphors from the natural world and speaking in abstractions. He sucks at that because that's not how he talks.
But at times when he's just being sincere and passing on his own wisdom gained through experience (which is what Iroh was trying to do) he can be quite the guru! Just in more straightforward language. Like his speech about honor when he approaches the GAang the second time to explain why he wants to join them or his advice to Sokka on what not to base his decisions on in TBR. He isn't aware of it, since he's still speaking in his own straightforward way, but the concepts can still be confusing. He even gets a confused reaction from Sokka in TBR like he might have given to Uncle in the past, but with Sokka's personality ("Is this supposed to be helping?") when he talks about failure.
Zuko's been wonderfully goofier since embracing his Avatar love, since he's not taking himself so seriously and isn't so afraid to show when he's at a loss or make mistakes. But in the moments where he knows what he's doing, he's far more interesting and charismatic than his old, robotic self. Zuko's cool!
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Also, if Mai/Zuko is going to be the relationship he ends the series in, they did a really, really bad job of setting it up, because Zuko with Mai was everything you don't want in a King, and Mai is someone I don't ever wan to see with power.
I almost put in a little nod to the Mai/Zuko relationship but stuck with Zuko. It's (relatively) easy for him to leave the Fire Nation, and anybody who comes with him when he leaves ("leaving" here basically just meaning turning their back on the current FN philosophy and fighting against Ozai) has to make that same change. I think Mai in BR kept herself in the game. She's not yet evolved into somebody in the right frame of mind, and we don't know what will happen with her, but as of now I'd say the writers are keeping that potential. In fact, it took a step forward when she rescued Zuko in TBR.
I've read some criticism of that action of hers, basically just people pointing out that she didn't do right because it was right, she just protected Zuko--and that's true. But it's possible for Zuko to be the catalyst towards Mai's own change as a character. They made clear in The Beach that her problem is not caring about anything, but she cares for him. So if she has an arc, it probably means she has to come to care about something, and that something could be the right thing.
I don't think, if the series ends with some future ideas about pairings, that they would pair Zuko with the same girl he's with in The Beach. They'd surely see how Mai would have to evolve to be a good partner for him. But if she's going to change, it probably only just started. In the first half of the season the gap between her and Zuko is really obvious--I think even she is vaguely aware that she's not as close to him as she wants to be because she doesn't get what's going on with him. In BR when he tells her he's doing this for his country, and that he doesn't share her views on his being a traitor, she's probably only listening to him because it's Zuko, but at least she's potentially listening.
Randomly, I'd love to hear your problems with redemption in HP - because I have mixed feelings about it
Heh--as you could probably tell, I was disappointed! I felt like there were sets ups for some real redemption stories that turned out not to be about that at all. After DH I got a totally different view of it. Some people turned out to be not-so-bad, but Zuko is a great contrast for me to show what *wasn't* happening there. People earned some measure of pity, but there was no true transformations imo. Which was kind of depressing--I kept feeling like I was bumping my head on the ceiling with my expectations!
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The fact that she DIDN'T believe in Zuko's cause but nonetheless didn't want to see him dead was what made that work for me, and I actually hope that she stays on the side of the Fire Nation. That scene in the cell, where they were these two people who have this relationship but are unequivocally on opposite sides of a great philosophical divide, was how I'd always seen their relationship, and one of the few places I’ve really enjoyed Mai.
I know a lot of people are predicting that she and Ty Lee will escape and join the Avatar, but I really hope that doesn't happen - after Zuko's seasons long change of heart, with him as such a pivotal character for the story, I don't see a way that Mai could duplicate his journey in a way that wouldn't feel shallow and slapdash in comparison. (And part of me really hopes that Azula threatens and manipulates Ty Lee and Mai into working for her again. Dangerous Ladies FTW!)
I totally understand what you mean about how there wasn't transformation stories in HP - there wasn't change visible in a lot of characters where it should have been, and everybody mainly ends where they started.
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Yes, that seems like the challenge if they're going that way. I definitely think they're going somewhere--she gained independence from Azula and Ty Lee wound up along with her. But of course that doesn't just lead to, "Gee, we're in jail now. I guess Zuko was right!" We know how Zuko came to understand the truth about the FN, but I don't know where Mai will (if she does) get that. Basically where we are now is that Mai loves Zuko and that's what she cares about, even if he's "the guy who dumped" her, she still cares about him. She doesn't yet understand what he's doing, though. And Zuko saw that her love wasn't conditional like his father's--she was there protecting him when he did the "wrong" thing.
And also they have to be careful of it being just everybody vs. Azula quickly. So I have no idea what will happen to Ty Lee and Mai in their current predicament, but I'm thinking something.
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Also, if Mai and Ty Lee get out of jail immediately, after I had to wait, like, 16 episodes to find out what happened to Suki, I'm gonna be pissed.