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In response to a secret there's been a lot of discussion about Mai today on ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
fandomsecrets,. The OP doesn't like Mai because they can't get over her…...
...can't get over her leaving her little brother with the GAang on Azula's orders and fighting with them instead of making a stand to get him back. She is not redeemed for this when she stands up to Azula at the end of the show to protect Zuko. Many people have talked about different issues here, how the first scene takes place in the first episode where Mai appears, how it shows how she is under Azula's thumb, how if she flung herself in front of Azula right away it would be skipping the entire character arc that gets her to make her stand later.
But what another issue that came up was that some people feel the difference between these two scenes is only the identity of the person in danger. Tom Tom is Mai's little brother, Zuko is the man she loves. Therefore she's being selfish, only sticking her neck out when it's someone she cares about. She wants Zuko for herself; she has no use for Tom Tom.
I don't think that reading is fair to the writers, because I honestly don't see Mai as being redeemed by love in the way that reading seems to imply. Of course her relationship with Zuko is her path to redemption. Her big moment spells it out: I love Zuko more than I fear you. Yes, this talks about love, but more importantly it talks about fear it's the fear that's more important. But it's not the fear of being hurt, imo.
Mai's a badass. A deadly badass. She may be very much aware that Azula is more deadly and can beat her, but it doesn't seem like she's a cringing coward, exactly. In fact, Mai’s shocking decision to act takes place far from Azula. It’s not Azula’s scariness that she has to overcome to act, it’s her own apathy. Apathy is the thing the character’s been associated since the beginning, more than fear of Azula or an inability to love.
The character openly describes herself as not caring about anything. Her whole personality hammers on this: she's emotionless, bored, doesn't care. She says she learned early on that her emotions were useless. Nobody listened to her. She only got positive reinforcement for being outwardly calm.
Grand, futile gestures (such as leaping to Tom Tom's defense) aren't just things Mai is afraid to do or doesn't care to do, they make no sense to her. They're useless. What's the point? She literally doesn't see a point to them, so she couldn't get herself to make one. That’s the thing about futile gestures. If you don’t think there’s any meaning in them, you don’t make them.
It’s no coincidence that Mai's great love interest is the guy whose father orders him to spend his life searching the globe for somebody who disappeared 100 years ago. It's the definition of futile gesture. It's a snark hunt. Anybody but Zuko probably would have...well, done something else. Anything. Taken up a hobby, at least, while he traveled around. But Zuko's got futile gestures in his bones. Dad wants him to search for the Avatar? He'll look for 3 years straight. He'll search his whole life, because it's a matter of honor. He’ll be distracted playing Pai Sho because it distracts him from thinking about his pointless quest.
The fact that Mai is attracted to this guy, imo. indicates that part of her is attracted to exactly this. It's not that suddenly she wants someone else so can rouse herself to protect him, imo, it's also that by getting close to Zuko she starts to see this other way of looking at the world close up. I think she starts to see, more and more, how Zuko's devotion to things that seem totally ridiculous is noble and maybe even kind of meaningful. Even when the guy's got everything going well and he's the prince again he still runs off to join the Avatar. But when she meets him again there he is with that same crazy passion.
Now she's got this clear choice: she's already tried to talk "sense" into Zuko. She sees he's not being sulky, he's at his most passionate, focused and Zuko. That's the situation she's facing now. It's not just that she loved Zuko. Loving Zuko isn't enough if you're Mai. That doesn't make the gesture less pointless. And anyway, the character wasn't set up as somebody who didn't love anyone, she was set up as somebody who didn't care about anything. Zuko's actually made her consider the idea that a futile gesture that gets her killed or thrown in jail might still be worth it, might still have meaning, might actually change something. Mai goes from somebody who can barely get herself to do things that get her immediate rewards winds up doing something that as far as she know is only going to bring her grief. And she finds that it actually makes her feel good and not stupid.
The difference isn't love, it's hope.
fandomsecrets,. The OP doesn't like Mai because they can't get over her…......can't get over her leaving her little brother with the GAang on Azula's orders and fighting with them instead of making a stand to get him back. She is not redeemed for this when she stands up to Azula at the end of the show to protect Zuko. Many people have talked about different issues here, how the first scene takes place in the first episode where Mai appears, how it shows how she is under Azula's thumb, how if she flung herself in front of Azula right away it would be skipping the entire character arc that gets her to make her stand later.
But what another issue that came up was that some people feel the difference between these two scenes is only the identity of the person in danger. Tom Tom is Mai's little brother, Zuko is the man she loves. Therefore she's being selfish, only sticking her neck out when it's someone she cares about. She wants Zuko for herself; she has no use for Tom Tom.
I don't think that reading is fair to the writers, because I honestly don't see Mai as being redeemed by love in the way that reading seems to imply. Of course her relationship with Zuko is her path to redemption. Her big moment spells it out: I love Zuko more than I fear you. Yes, this talks about love, but more importantly it talks about fear it's the fear that's more important. But it's not the fear of being hurt, imo.
Mai's a badass. A deadly badass. She may be very much aware that Azula is more deadly and can beat her, but it doesn't seem like she's a cringing coward, exactly. In fact, Mai’s shocking decision to act takes place far from Azula. It’s not Azula’s scariness that she has to overcome to act, it’s her own apathy. Apathy is the thing the character’s been associated since the beginning, more than fear of Azula or an inability to love.
The character openly describes herself as not caring about anything. Her whole personality hammers on this: she's emotionless, bored, doesn't care. She says she learned early on that her emotions were useless. Nobody listened to her. She only got positive reinforcement for being outwardly calm.
Grand, futile gestures (such as leaping to Tom Tom's defense) aren't just things Mai is afraid to do or doesn't care to do, they make no sense to her. They're useless. What's the point? She literally doesn't see a point to them, so she couldn't get herself to make one. That’s the thing about futile gestures. If you don’t think there’s any meaning in them, you don’t make them.
It’s no coincidence that Mai's great love interest is the guy whose father orders him to spend his life searching the globe for somebody who disappeared 100 years ago. It's the definition of futile gesture. It's a snark hunt. Anybody but Zuko probably would have...well, done something else. Anything. Taken up a hobby, at least, while he traveled around. But Zuko's got futile gestures in his bones. Dad wants him to search for the Avatar? He'll look for 3 years straight. He'll search his whole life, because it's a matter of honor. He’ll be distracted playing Pai Sho because it distracts him from thinking about his pointless quest.
The fact that Mai is attracted to this guy, imo. indicates that part of her is attracted to exactly this. It's not that suddenly she wants someone else so can rouse herself to protect him, imo, it's also that by getting close to Zuko she starts to see this other way of looking at the world close up. I think she starts to see, more and more, how Zuko's devotion to things that seem totally ridiculous is noble and maybe even kind of meaningful. Even when the guy's got everything going well and he's the prince again he still runs off to join the Avatar. But when she meets him again there he is with that same crazy passion.
Now she's got this clear choice: she's already tried to talk "sense" into Zuko. She sees he's not being sulky, he's at his most passionate, focused and Zuko. That's the situation she's facing now. It's not just that she loved Zuko. Loving Zuko isn't enough if you're Mai. That doesn't make the gesture less pointless. And anyway, the character wasn't set up as somebody who didn't love anyone, she was set up as somebody who didn't care about anything. Zuko's actually made her consider the idea that a futile gesture that gets her killed or thrown in jail might still be worth it, might still have meaning, might actually change something. Mai goes from somebody who can barely get herself to do things that get her immediate rewards winds up doing something that as far as she know is only going to bring her grief. And she finds that it actually makes her feel good and not stupid.
The difference isn't love, it's hope.
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HE COULD MAKE IROH A TEA COZY.
Also I love you.
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I have felt all Avatar metaed out for a very, very long time now, so I cannot articulate anything but that.
<3333
I FEEL IT STRONGLY THOUGH.
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OBV.
<3
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This was a delightful read! Thanks for articulating so well this side of Mai's character arc, especially since it's often ignored or completely misunderstood. You really nicely put into words why this particular aspect of her character is so endearing.
Much <3 for this! <3<3<3
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And there's also the chance that she put two and two together and observed how carefully her opponents were taking care of Tom-Tom; they brought him over in a baby sling, not a box. Happily cooing and pawing at Sokka's face, not crying and squirming to escape. And heck, she'd grown up with her parents and turned out, well...as that! XD It doesn't exactly follow the point of the essay, but it's possible that she said, "Hey, he's okay out there, he might even be better off."
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Funny enough, I watched that episode the day before yesterday, and I was specifically thinking about Mai's actions at the end. What I thought was this:
At that point in the narrative, Azula is unstoppable. The whole thing with Azula and Tai Lee at the circus made this very obvious point: putting yourself or the things you love, even the things you desperately need in your life, before what Azula tells you to do is very stupid and will probably get you killed in a horribly sadistic way unless you cave in and do what she wants before she gets done toying with you.
And look at the way Tai Lee deals with what Azula does to her: after the disaster in the circus tent, she takes off her costume and very calmly, with no tone of regret at all and even with a smile and some enthusiasm, tells Azula that gosh, she's changed her mind, she would love to leave the circus and help her.
When they arrive in Omashu, Mai asks Tai Lee why she left the circus, saying "You said it was your calling." Tai Lee smiles and says perkily, "Well, Azula called louder."
These girls grew up with Azula. Even as a little child she treated Zuko with a gleeful sadism, and once even used Mai (who she knew liked Zuko) to humiliate him. As children Mai and Tai Lee learned this.
What I thought was that Mai, who has a very calculating mind and is extra good at finding the least difficult (frequently the most apathetic) path to reach a goal, who fights with tiny but deadly hidden knives, whose fighting style is silent and the sort of thing where she stops short as soon as she knows the fight is over -- Mai heard what Tai Lee said, put that together with her lifelong experience with Azula, and by the time Azula told her to turn Aang etc down knew that she pretty much had to do what Azula said without question. Because it was that kind of situation.
But regardless of why she acted like that in that situation: as far as why she stood up to Azula later, I thought that it probably has everything to do with what you say: she learned from Zuko how to stick her neck out for what she believes and the people she loves.
The thing is, how can people forgive the horrible, stupid, blockheaded and occasionally kind of evil things Zuko did before he had a change of heart, but not forgive Mai? Zuko betrayed Uncle to Azula; he couldn't know if Azula would kill Iroh for being a traitor, or at least hurt him badly -- at any rate, I didn't know. I figured probably not because it's a kid's show, but on the other hand, Azula is frightening. It's true that Uncle can defend himself where baby Tom Tom can't, but that's not the only example of Zuko's selfishness and disregard for others. Seasons 1 and 2 are FILLED with examples.
But it seems like fans adore him, right? He's such a misunderstood guy, and really such a hero, and we know this because he proved it in the end!
Well, ditto Mai. She's misunderstood, misguided and afraid to do the right thing, but deep down she's actually a hero, and we know this because she proved it in the end.
I was excessively underwhelmed by Mai as a character the first time through the series -- until she stepped out at Boiling Rock and showed that all that time, very quietly and understatedly, she'd been going through a character arc just as interesting and affecting as Zuko's. The second time through the series, I looked for it, and wow do I love it.
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Where as with Mai the whole thing about the character is she doesn't seem to feel anything. Even Zuko yells at her about that. And when a characer's created to have this emotionless aspect they're going to come across as kind of a cypher. I think we do have enough information about Mai to get some idea of why she changes. Watching Zuko and maybe the GAang too apparently does make her rethink her own way of dealing with life, which is a kind of learned helplessness. She can fight, but when it comes to dealing with most of the people in her life she rolls over and plays dead and just says she doesn't care. Until the day she actually makes the decision to try something else. Not, I don't think, because she's so very madly in love with Zuko but because loving Zuko has made her want to try it.
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For Zuko, that’s questioning how his family has ruled the Fire Nation for the past century. For Mai, it’s breaking from the apathy instilled in her, for the sake of her father’s career as a bureaucrat. They overcome what they’re supposed to do, to ultimately redeem themselves and each other.
Many people don’t seem to understand that about Mai’s character because she doesn't showcase her emotions as you mentioned. However, you really understand Mai’s character arc. It's is a really perceptive and intelligent Meta. <3
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I *love* stories where the younger generation has to fix the mistakes of the old--without being perfect themselves, of course. I think the show really proved they were onto this when they had Zuko not switch sides in CoD. Iroh couldn't guide him to the right side, he had to get what he wanted and understand himself why it was wrong. But at the same time there are awesome older people, so it's not like they're stupid. I can believe that Mai and Zuko are both going to be awesome old people together. (And it will be hilarious.)
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I especially like that last line "The difference isn't love, it's hope." Which I think sums up Mai's character development perfectly. She isn't learning to love, she is learning to stand up for love.
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*got that out of system*
I like how you put new meaning into Mai's character. I feel that she's just an intelligent, strong-willed rich girl under fancy clothes and the cordial personality that was forced upon her at a young age. With Zuko, she's learning the value of "pointless acts". You've made some exellent points!
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Glad you liked the post!
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I'm so happy I found this! I adore Mai, and this was just the little bit of depth to her that I can never seem to express myself.
So well done! And it really made me think too. Major props to you! :)
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