Boo hoo, who's the real me.

[sistermagpie]

I've been thinking about this post by petitesoeur since I read it and we started chatting about it and got to talking about online personalities.



Some people feel like nothing online is "real" because you're not there in person. In a way I can see the point; it's always been a rather weird disconnect when I've met a person in person that I know online. But also I've yet to be disappointed. Granted I've only met 4 people (I think) but the one that probably had the clearest online personality for me pre-meeting (bubbela from atxfa) totally reflected her personality online. The others pretty much did too. But what would I think if I met someone who physically just did not match their voice on the net, particularly if I hated them in person?

The weird thing is that in some ways I feel like I'm more real on the net. I'm talking about things I care about, even if they're silly. I usually end up circling everything back to some kind of ethics dispute. I get to obsess about my issues and characters in ways I never do IRL. Also--and I think vanityfair talked about this in her review of Matrix Reloaded--I really do sometimes feel like even internet names are more "real" than people's RL names. Except when they're not, in which case the person is always known by their real name anyway. Like, it's really Aja who did the Matrix Reloaded review, see?

I can't figure out if my personality is really different online. I don't think I talk as much in real life (at least not in long essays at a time to other people!) and I think I make more of an impression online than in real life because of it. I rarely if ever find people who don't like me IRL, not because I'm so damn likeable but because I'm just less noticeable and less confrontational until somebody gets to know me (and even then I'm not very confrontational on or off the 'net). A friend of mine once said I seemed like I wasn't judgemental but I really was and I was briefly worried she was saying I was, you know, very judgemental. But when I asked her she said no, she just meant that I could usually listen to somebody open-mindedly and not react like I was judging them even though I privately had some definite ideas about what they were saying or doing. On the 'net I'm more likely to give those private opinions to more people.

The last entry in The Diary of Anne Frank she wonders about whether anyone will ever know the "quiet Anne" beneath the "frolicsome little goat that's broken loose." Of course thanks to the Diary the quiet Anne who thinks paper is more patient than people is the one who survived. We get reflections of the lighthearted Anne when she tells us how she interacts with others and how they react to her. Are we the ones who ended up knowing the real Anne or did her family? Did we both? Did neither of us? A diary definitely demands a different voice...I'm still struggling with what voice to use in this lj, in fact. I'm fine if I'm writing about a subject but if I'm relating something in life I still feel a bit like...what the hell am I saying? I'm better when I'm responding to someone else--no problem finding a voice then. Sometimes I feel like different enteries would sound more natural in another person's style but then I'd be imitating the other person's style. Hopefully this will all click sometime soon and this thing will get way more interesting!

Maybe this isn't a direct parallel for the Internet for a lot of people. Some people, I know, like the 'net because they can do things they wouldn't have the guts to do in person, they like to play with people, they make up different personas. But I don't think I meet to many of them since I usually get into areas of fandoms where you just can't fake that level of interest. I don't really like places where people just sort of re-create smalltalk and exchange personal details. But even in the heavily-obsessed places personalities come through, friends get made, cliques appear, huge fights happen. Sometimes I think personalities clash more easily on the 'net because the way people communicate becomes that much more clear.

I'm not sure I had an actual point here. Just throwing out thoughts I guess.

Comments

[princess-draco.livejournal.com]

But what would I think if I met someone who physically just did not match their voice on the net, particularly if I hated them in person?
This is something that I've thought about before as well. I'm not sure whether people tend to be more or less open/'real' about their personality online, but I think they're probably more open about it. Online, if someone judges you - big deal, right? So, what if the type of person they are in real life is completely different, someone you don't want to hang out with? Even if their *real* personality is the one online that you know and love, they probably won't immediately switch to that one (okay, not multiple personalities here, but you get what I mean) because they're too used to acting ______. In fact, I'd probably do that too, even if not on purpose. I might talk a lot about Harry Potter and slash and fic (that I could never talk about with my real life friends) but I'm sure I'd still be just as ditzy and airheaded as I tend to be in real life.

I really do sometimes feel like even internet names are more "real" than people's RL names.
Definitely, another thing I really agree with. I kind of tend to do a lot of association with people. I guess I feel like their name is their LJ username, which is completely impossible and all usually, but that's how I mainly identify them, and that's how I have them imprinted in my memory. Likewise, I tend to think that a poster looks exactly like their current userpic *g* It's completely ridiculous, but I think it's basically human nature to associate things with people - when I meet someone, I think "oh - black hair" or something like that, and that's what I'll remember most. Online, you can choose a name, that might really suit you more than your real name, and it'll fit so well that people will automatically associate your username/the words in it and you.

Are we the ones who ended up knowing the real Anne or did her family? Did we both? Did neither of us?
This might contradict what I said up there, but I think both we, as the reader, and her family, knew the 'real' Anne. True, she opened herself up more to her diary... but isn't the way you present yourself to everyone ultimately your 'real self'? It might not be the way you truly feel, or what you wish you could do, but it's the way you present yourself and the way you can eventually become. I'm very nonconfrontational and passive towards other people in real life. I used to just harbor all my feelings of anger because I didn't feel it would be 'nice' to get mad, so I never get mad publicly or at other people. After years and years of hiding anger and disappointment, I eventually... 'morphed' into this passive person. *shrugs* Of course, it's not like this for everyone, but even if a person seems to have two sides, well... the two sides of a coin are blurred in the air. They're completely different but eventually they'll overlap.

Sorry if this is completely incoherent or dumb... just my thoughts :)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Even if their *real* personality is the one online that you know and love, they probably won't immediately switch to that one (okay, not multiple personalities here, but you get what I mean) because they're too used to acting ______.

I think I do know what you mean. Sometimes I wonder if a lot of the whole "you don't really know people" idea also has to do with that built-in anti-nerd idea that the 'net is associated with. Like yeah, there's the 40 year old men who pretend to be 14 year old girls yes, but people's personalities really do come through, but it assumes your the type of person communicating through writing. Maybe your true personality comes through even more so because you see how people kind of engage with others when they really don't need to (since nobody knows when you're lurking).

Online, you can choose a name, that might really suit you more than your real name, and it'll fit so well that people will automatically associate your username/the words in it and you.

Good point! It's funny...I remember one talking to someone from a ng I was on and we were talking about someone else and we discovered we each pronounced his name differently, putting the accent on a different syllable. It seemed really important to find out how he pronounced it and also strange that everybody didn't pronounce it the same way. Some people, I've noticed, seem to have this drive to find out your real name if you start e-mailing or whatever and I never get that. In fact I usually continue to think of the person by their 'net name anyway and get sort of weirded out when they call me by my own, even though it's not like it's that different.

I used to just harbor all my feelings of anger because I didn't feel it would be 'nice' to get mad, so I never get mad publicly or at other people. After years and years of hiding anger and disappointment, I eventually... 'morphed' into this passive person.

I think I do understand...in fact when I sometimes think the 'net was sort of a good thing for me because it got me used to being less passive. In the beginning I'd really have to psych myself up to even post, much less disagree with someone. I still hate anybody getting angry or flaming or whatever but sometimes at least I feel like I said something, you know? I wonder if this has had any effect in my RL, like if I'm more confident about things like that.

Sorry if this is completely incoherent or dumb... just my thoughts :)

Ack! Not incoherent or dumb at all!:-)

[petitesoeur.livejournal.com]

ah the joys philosophizing -- it'll drive you straight to drink.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You did this to me!!

[petitesoeur.livejournal.com]

-- guess i'm a good teacher as the sign of a Gd Tchr is a lively class discussion

re: relationship between the RW & Cyber self -- there is, for me at least, always an issue re: having to decide what i'll put up because i can't exercise the same control over who is going to read an entry or a comment on your lj as i have in the RW. i constantly have to consider who is my Reader. as a matter of fact when i write about events related to my job, i first send what i've written to my supervisor @ work for 'approval' -- this is the deal i made with him when i started my lj.

when i write i also take into consideration that I've told most of my RW friends [including my separated-from-husband] about my lj. On top of that I've got a profile up on "match.com" & when i write to my 'matches' I give them the link to my lj.

due to all that stuff, i conceive of my lj & my lj persona as public. but this doesn't create any kinds of difficulties for me. right from my very 1st entry into cyberspace on the x-files newsgroups lo about 8 years ago, i’ve always thought of “petitesoeur” as a public persona. even the genesis of my handle “petitesoeur” reflects the fact that i was consciously aware that i was constructing a ‘public’ cyber-self. i had had a dance-oriented video production company called “little sister productions” that was taken from a song lyric “dance little sister dance” -- not only because it is a fave rave song of mine but also because: i’m little {short aka petite -- see where this is going} & love to dance { i’ve been a professional dancer for most of my life}. when i plunged into x-philedom & needed an online handle i frenchified "little sister" {not much of a leap: i think of myself as well as constantly hear people refer to me “petite” & also because i am a francophile} and went from “dancer” to “sister” as an adoption of the conceit that, in cyberspace at least, i would be mulder’s little sister . voila! “petitesoeur” was born & ever since has been madly rambling on & on & on......

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Now...do you run every entry by your boss or just the ones that are work related?

I got my name from a story I wrote a long time ago and there was a Princess Magpie in it. One of those character names that just popped into my head and it fit her. I ended up not rewriting the story to the point where I thought it worked (I think I re-wrote the whole many chaptered thing several times but it still didn't). It had 7 ravens in it so I suppose Magpie came naturally out of that. Maybe I always sort of felt a kinship with her, though since she'd been asleep for X amount of years I don't know why!
She was really a very minor character. When I got online and realized I needed a name I just sort of cast my mind out and thought yeah, that's me!

And to prove how these things work, the thing works on so many levels! First there was the discovery that I do chatter on-line incessently and write very long posts. Then there's that it's almost my name anyway. Then I started getting obsessed with the birds and found all this great folklore about them that also sort of suited me. Coincidence...?

See, this is why 'net names are sometimes just better than your real name. Sometimes I feel like you can even tell when you're dealing with, say, a young person who's using a name she's going to look back at and cringe (orliezgurl167 anyone?). I used to be on this Native American group a lot and one time somebody there was being very disdainful of somebody's 'net name because they thought it sounded like the person was trying to sound Native American and why did white people do that (which was unfair because she actually wasn't doing that). This person posted a really really funny parody where he explained the history of our People and 'net names. It was funny but also totally accurate, harking back to the days of CBs etc.

[moonlitpages.livejournal.com]

Very interesting thoughts- I can't count the number of times I've pondered very much the same things. I think this is an issue most anyone who spends a significant amount of time online has to mull over at least a bit at some point or another. Making me think in the wee hours of the morning when I should be asleep, though, is most likely never a good idea ;-)

I can't figure out if my personality is really different online. I don't think I talk as much in real life (at least not in long essays at a time to other people!) and I think I make more of an impression online than in real life because of it.

It's much the same way for me, I've found. I've always been able to express myself better in writing than I have in speech. When I talk, I can never seem to say things the way I would like, or express what I mean exactly. When I type or write, I can say exactly what I want, the way I want, and I feel as if it is more 'me'. I'm certainly more honest when I type to others online than otherwise, mainly because I feel safe to discuss issues I could never discuss freely with those I know "in real life". Especially living in the 'Bible Belt' of the South where I do, finding anyone to openly discuss things such as slash, etc, with is nearly impossible unless you are just looking for a heated debate.

In a way I can see the point; it's always been a rather weird disconnect when I've met a person in person that I know online. But also I've yet to be disappointed.

This has generally held true for most of the people that I have met as well, that I knew online first. All of them have been a bit more awkward, a bit more reserved than their online personalities, but I think that's to be expected. I'm probably much the same way. None of them were completely different people. I think this probably holds true for most people that you meet online that are not in some sort of random chat room. I think fandoms tend to attract people that express themselves more freely in writing, whereas those who express themselves poorly in writing tend to stay away or lose interest rather quickly. Which is how we like it best anyway, eh? *laughs*

...I'm still struggling with what voice to use in this lj, in fact.

I'd be surprised if most lj-ers didn't struggle with this at some point or another, because I certainly have. I think my style tends to waver from casual to formal depending on what I'm discussing. It's always hard for me to settle on a voice if I don't know my audience, also. I don't really change my writing voice depending on my audience purposefully, but I've noticed it tends to shift depending on who I'm addressing. Damn writing voices have a mind of their own, don't they? *laughs*

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I've always been able to express myself better in writing than I have in speech.

Me too--also I wonder if there's something naturally more conducive to honesty in the way you say something and then the other person responds, as opposed to RL where your constantly looking for the other person's reactions and giving your own reactions at the same time. Writing I feel more able to do things like make a point and then clarify what I'm saying to make sure people aren't getting the wrong idea. IRL the person would already have interrupted with their objections.

I think there's also the real relief in talking to someone who shares an interest with you that you don't usually find in real life. It's probably no surprise the type of people who are drawn to fandoms for that reason. Nothing's more annoying than talking about a story or a TV show or characters you love with someone who feels the need to constantly remind you it's "not real." Also it's always funny trying to talk to someone in the RW about whatever your fandom interest is. You realize how much the fandom influences how you see the canon, and also how clueless non-fanon people are.;-) But when fandom shapes a pov I don't think it's changing it so much as encouraging you to take what you have and run with it. That's part of what you described about feeling free to discuss issues you wouldn't normally. You get past the irritating stuff and right to the heart of things. You're always interacting in this--what's it called petitesoeur?--the transitional space?

This has generally held true for most of the people that I have met as well, that I knew online first. All of them have been a bit more awkward, a bit more reserved than their online personalities, but I think that's to be expected.

Yes, it's true! Usually I find it just takes a bit before you realize you can talk about the same things you do online. And that you "know" all the same people.

I think fandoms tend to attract people that express themselves more freely in writing, whereas those who express themselves poorly in writing tend to stay away or lose interest rather quickly. Which is how we like it best anyway, eh?

LOL! Absolutely! I remember a while ago there was a thread on FAP where some young person was trying to "take back the fandom" from all these old people who hated netspeak etc. and swooning, but of course there are plenty of young people and teenagers in fandoms that also hate netspeak. Extreme Netspeak (as opposed to the occasional abbreviation) is basically for people who have nothing to say. Sometimes I think it's also an attempt to put across a "cool" personality that doesn't come through in words. Like a person who wants you to know they where supercute clothes is going to spell a supercute way. Or something.:-)

It's always hard for me to settle on a voice if I don't know my audience, also.

Exactly! I think that's sometimes my single worst problem. Anne Frank really had the right idea with Kitty! I've always pretty much kept a diary that's written but I don't know if I would recreate that voice online. Like most personal diaries it's excessively whiny and bratty and complaining. I wouldn't inflict it on the masses!

[petitesoeur.livejournal.com]

"The concept of transitional phenomena refers to a dimension of living that belongs neither to internal nor to external reality; rather it is the place that both connects and separates inner and outer. Winnicott uses many terms to refer to this dimension - the third area, the intermediate area, the potential space, a resting place, and the location of cultural experience...Transitional phenomena are inextricably linked with playing and creativity." [ from The Language of Winnicott by Jan Abram]

A few pages later Abram also uses the term 'transitional space' to designate this place.

I like to think of it as the imagination's playground.

[jewelsong.livejournal.com]

You know, I really, really want to comment on all this.

But I've had a bad head cold for three days, my mind is stuffed with cotton and I've only had one cup of coffee this morning.

Perhaps later I will be coherent and even witty. Stand by.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Cold bad. Wit good.

Take as long as you need, Jewel!:-D

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's true--and a lot of names (mine included) conjure up a specific image anyway. I think it took me a while to figure out that your name was a real name, though. I probably read it as one long fantasy word for a while there.:-)