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I saw it last night. I feel many posts coming on. I did a long babbling one about my basic impressions which may just be too much for anybody to read through, but I might post it here anyway. Usually I prefer to focus on different aspects in different posts. I'll probably have to do one at least for all the hobbit stories. So I'll start with this little thing I posted on TORC today and throw it out to everybody in case they have opinions.
I've noticed that not only is Gollum one of the most popular characters with audiences, but also with critics. It seems more than once I've seen him referred to as the most interesting, complex or sophisticated in the Trilogy. The impression I get is that many critics are saying he's the "real" character, the one who seems like a true human being, more than the others. These are mostly critics who don't like the style of movie in general, I'd say, though.
It made me wonder if the reason Gollum seems so much more sophisticated is simply because he is more modern in that he is the only completely selfish character? Gollum is at all times governed by self-interest alone. He wants the ring, he wants a friend. He feels badly about wanting the ring. He's angry at having to choose. He feels sorry for himself. He's angry at being cast out of his society. Gollum's life is purely about his own survival.
By design other characters act out of a sense of what is right before what they want. The movie gives them more personal motivations that I think you can see acted everywhere, but it remains true to the text in that these personal motivations are background. It's interesting to think of Pippin trying to make good on being responsible for Gandalf's death, for Eowyn to get out of her cage, for Merry to prove himself, for Frodo and Sam to overcome their personal vulnerabilities that the ring preys on, but ultimately everyone's goal is the same. Their personal problems come second to destroying the ring for the good of all. Even Arwen, who was handled pretty well over all, ultimately becomes a non-issue. Aragorn's closest to Legolas and Gimli until the ring is destroyed. Arwen respects this, Aragorn knows this.
Does this sound on-track to anyone? I just find it interesting that Gollum's selfishness and complete disregard of the greater good seems associated with reality or sophistication, while the other characters' priorities are somehow associated with simplicity and perhaps even childishness. To me it seems the other way around. An adult knows his place in things, can recognize right from wrong and can overcome his personal desires for the greater reward.
Oh, and I loved it. Was too overwhelmed to be coherent afterwards, but yeah, I loved it. There were a couple of things I didn't love I can throw out quickly right away:
1. Gandalf bopping Denethor. It was like Bugs Bunny sneaking up and bopping Hitler. Gandalf could have found a more dignified way to take control. Ditto on Denethor's amazing final flaming sprint to the sea.
2. The endless shot of Frodo wobbling after being stung. It reminded me of my most hated shot in FOTR, the endless Frodo wobbling after being skewered. Hated it then, hated it now. The two moments on either side of this, however, were incredible.
3. Bilbo's old age make-up was too much. He looked like a gnome wearing age make-up and it distracted me from that wonderful conversation in the cart.
I've noticed that not only is Gollum one of the most popular characters with audiences, but also with critics. It seems more than once I've seen him referred to as the most interesting, complex or sophisticated in the Trilogy. The impression I get is that many critics are saying he's the "real" character, the one who seems like a true human being, more than the others. These are mostly critics who don't like the style of movie in general, I'd say, though.
It made me wonder if the reason Gollum seems so much more sophisticated is simply because he is more modern in that he is the only completely selfish character? Gollum is at all times governed by self-interest alone. He wants the ring, he wants a friend. He feels badly about wanting the ring. He's angry at having to choose. He feels sorry for himself. He's angry at being cast out of his society. Gollum's life is purely about his own survival.
By design other characters act out of a sense of what is right before what they want. The movie gives them more personal motivations that I think you can see acted everywhere, but it remains true to the text in that these personal motivations are background. It's interesting to think of Pippin trying to make good on being responsible for Gandalf's death, for Eowyn to get out of her cage, for Merry to prove himself, for Frodo and Sam to overcome their personal vulnerabilities that the ring preys on, but ultimately everyone's goal is the same. Their personal problems come second to destroying the ring for the good of all. Even Arwen, who was handled pretty well over all, ultimately becomes a non-issue. Aragorn's closest to Legolas and Gimli until the ring is destroyed. Arwen respects this, Aragorn knows this.
Does this sound on-track to anyone? I just find it interesting that Gollum's selfishness and complete disregard of the greater good seems associated with reality or sophistication, while the other characters' priorities are somehow associated with simplicity and perhaps even childishness. To me it seems the other way around. An adult knows his place in things, can recognize right from wrong and can overcome his personal desires for the greater reward.
Oh, and I loved it. Was too overwhelmed to be coherent afterwards, but yeah, I loved it. There were a couple of things I didn't love I can throw out quickly right away:
1. Gandalf bopping Denethor. It was like Bugs Bunny sneaking up and bopping Hitler. Gandalf could have found a more dignified way to take control. Ditto on Denethor's amazing final flaming sprint to the sea.
2. The endless shot of Frodo wobbling after being stung. It reminded me of my most hated shot in FOTR, the endless Frodo wobbling after being skewered. Hated it then, hated it now. The two moments on either side of this, however, were incredible.
3. Bilbo's old age make-up was too much. He looked like a gnome wearing age make-up and it distracted me from that wonderful conversation in the cart.
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Gollum
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Re: Gollum
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Re: Gollum
In the end, Jackson left the scene out for fear of confusing the audience (Frodo as Gollum-type thing), but it hints at another reason for the liberties he took with the story: It may be that he finds evil more fascinating than good.
If this is the case, he’s hardly alone. Our culture is sadly unused to fully realized portrayals of good characters. So was Tolkien’s, in fact; when he created his hobbit hero, literary anti-heroes were very much in vogue (which may help explain why his own books were so popular). As he put it, “Goodness is . . . bereft of its proper beauty.” Now we’ve gone so far down that road that, for the most part, we seem to have run out of the resources we need to portray a really heroic hero. We find our heroes much more palatable — or so the entertainment industry assumes, anyway — with a few major flaws thrown in, perhaps to make us more comfortable with our own.
http://nationalreview.com/comment/dalfonzo200312220001.asp
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Re: Gollum
I was very afraid of the changes made to Frodo and Sam's story in reading about them, but I was happy to see they didn't bother as much as I thought they would upon seeing them. Also, I always come back to the fact that many people I've encountered already elevate Sam over Frodo in exactly the way she describes because he's so difficult to understand. It's one of the most frustrating things about LOTR fandom, and seeing it all over again with the movie is even more frustrating. But ironically, I recently was talking to someone who seemed very young who didn't like Frodo in the books or the first two movies because she completely misunderstood him...and yet somehow the third movie made her finally get him. For some reason this last film made her understand that Frodo was not self-centered as she had originally seen him (how anyone could consider this character self-centered is beyond me) and they he did care about others. So I can forgive Jackson for wanting to play out the drama of Frodo fighting off the ring in an external way because I think it's in part due to him trying to show that there is a battle going on there when a lot of people don't see it.
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1. Oh, I am a bad purist, I though that was rather amusing. I saw that Denethor was not going anywhere good, character-wise, in a hurry, so I accepted him for the comic relief cackling fool he was. Flaming jump of death, though - too much.
2. Thank goodness, I'm not the only one! That was one of the biggest problems I had with FOTR - the slow motion grunting shots of pain. I thought of them immediately upon viewing that scene. I felt much the same about the slow motion laughing shots in the Houses of Healing, but got over it because of the look in Sam's eyes. Aaaah.
3. Yeah, and did you notice he looked much better and younger when he came out to the boat?
I like your analysis of Gollum. I also think that one of the reasons for his popularity is simply because he's nifty to look out, without being too scary, and his sad behavior proves much comedy in TTT. But I wouldn't necessarily agree with you that he seems like the most 'human' character - I don't think the other characters are superhuman or inaccesible. The hobbits, hey, are designed to be accessible to the multitudes! But I don't analyze the characters in terms of their realness, so much, so my judgement is probably skewed (as I sit here pondering that Aragorn, or someone, hey, is not sooo unrealistic, for a kingly type. And elves are not so ethereal, because we have to give them some leeway for being elves. You see. Sigh.)
My own Gollum love is from the books. Partially to do with a weird attraction to his broken English. But, also, like I said in my other comment - I don't think he's the most human, but I think he's kind of emblematic of the human inner struggle. I suppose everyone who has the Ring is, as we see with Frodo gradually becoming crazier as he enters Mordor, but Gollum has already pretty much lost the battle. He's evil, and to escape himself he must claw up out of his own, well, badness. I just find that appealing, and it makes me so sad that the struggle is doomed.
This, which has the poor Gollum on the verge of redemption:
"Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee – but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing."
I found one of the most moving passages in the entire trilogy, and it actually brought me to tears (although LOTR made me cry more frequently than any other book I've read. I would burst into tears in the middle of Faramir speeches, because he was just so very cool. Er, sorry to bust up the intelligent analysis with fangirliness, but there it is. ;D)
*stares at snippet* And the wistfulness, and the seeing of the Frodo Sam love that he could never have, and the way Sam just abuses him after, and the...WAH. Pity, dear Smeagol, is what makes crazed Chresimoi like you, and corrupt famous quotes in your name. Maybe that's it? :D
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I do love Gollum though--somebody pointed out to me that in the book the most fully developed characters are probably Gollum, Sam and Frodo. Usually I think Tolkien preferred to keep the evil characters very evil without getting into their motivations beyond the sort of moral lesson they gave. (I think he literally thought it was a bad idea to do this.) But with Gollum he couldn't help himself. He works because he's like this walking Id or something.
That scene is one of my favorites in the book too--it just gets me every time. Makes me love Frodo too, for treating Gollum with some dignity eevn when he didn't seem to deserve it. Heh--of course I love Gollum and that scene. I love Draco the same way! Wah, wants friends he can't have, is nasty but sad. Wah!
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