[livejournal.com profile] mirabellawotr brought up something today that really struck a chord with me in this post. She's talking about Remus and Sirius' relationship and considering the possibility that it's not necessarily a happy one or a good basis for fluff.



Mira says, "I also think it would be kind of interesting to have that initial euphoria wear off and for the two of them to find that no matter how earnestly they try they just don't have much to say to each other anymore, and maybe there's still a lot of residual bitterness from The Prank floating around, so they go on making tea and being impeccably polite to one another." Now neither she, nor I, is not saying this is the way their relationship must be, but I really liked the idea because to me OotP!Remus and Sirius are incredibly sad people, and not in a way that's conducive to hurt/comfort slash.

I should say personally I don't see them as a couple in canon, but that has no bearing on what I'm talking about here--I'm not adverse to the idea that they are, or that they ever had sex while living at Grimmauld Place. It's just that to me these characters just sum up everything that can be so painful about life. James is considered a tragedy, but stories like his have never really grabbed me. Dying young and handsome in a heroic way is actually not a bad way to die in many ways-in fact, it’s probably more what Sirius would have dreamt of in canon, James Dean-wannabe that he was.

Remus, Sirius and Snape, otoh, they have to live--and they're not living well. Think of who Remus and Sirius in particular were in school. They ruled Hogwarts, broke all the rules and got away with it. McGonnogal talks about them like her favorite sons--this, despite the fact that we know they could be stupid and cruel. Snape's life is pretty horrific, but you get the feeling he never expected much better. He was used to things being awful, what with his parents being unhappy and his being homely, not good at sports and picked on. The best time of his life may well have been Lucius Malfoy seeming to genuinely like him (his son seems to genuinely like him as well), but that didn't lead anywhere good either.

But what about Remus or better yet, Sirius--could he ever really have thought he'd end up where he did? Obviously both of them had their own problems; Remus is a werewolf so I think he is better prepared to deal with a life as an outcast who has to struggle. But Sirius? Yes he fought with his mother but to me this seems to have been a clash of strong personalities that were very similar and not just a case of Sirius having been abused throughout his life. ([livejournal.com profile] fernwithy did a great post on this that very much went along with the way Sirius and Mrs. Black came across to me in OotP here, btw. Iow, without dismissing how painful it must have been for Sirius at home, I think he always had confidence in himself. He left the Black House and went to live with James, he had good friends, he was cocky, he was handsome, he drove his motorcycle. He liked being a rebel. When he left home he was possibly at the age when he knew everything; I suspect the world seemed at his feet.

Now here he is at 40 wasted, useless and living with his parents--the ultimate sign of failure for a lot of adults. Also, he's living with Remus. This could be a good thing, in that this is one of his oldest friends, the only real family he's got left. Otoh, the two of them could just be further reminders of how everything turned to crap. Having not seen each other for so many years, and carrying the memory of their younger selves, it would be easy for them to "see" their younger selves when they looked at each other. But look how different they are now. And what have they done in the intervening years that they can talk about? Not much that we can see, sadly. Considering who they were in school I imagine they might have had some pretty big futures laid out. Instead: no job, no family, no homes of their own.

First, let's think about Remus. His days at Hogwarts were probably the only time he wasn't an outsider due to his illness--the time he had friends that accepted him for what he was and even valued him for it. But it didn't last, did it? It was just sort of an illusion. Another illusion was the Great Marauder Friendship. At school it was probably one-for-all and all-for-one, but then James was killed there was suspicion on all sides. I doubt Remus could really trust that he’d never be turned on either. Even after Sirius was exonerated Remus' suspicion of him would still be there, along with Peter's own betrayal and the way they all fell for it. Sadly, they don’t seem to live long enough that we get to see them re-establish a relationship as adults that encompasses all that.

Not to mention, Sirius spends practically all of OotP focused on James—you have to wonder how close he came to just saying flat-out that he wished it had been Remus and not James who had been killed by Voldemort. This may just be because Sirius is romanticizing the past and making James into something perfect for him to believe in, but still, if Harry is being made to feel inadequate for not being his father, surely Remus is feeling that too. He knows James and Sirius were probably the best friends of their group. Not to mention, of all the Marauders, it’s Sirius who almost him in big trouble at school with his Prank. It was James who stopped it, so it's not impossible to imagine Remus, too, wishes he'd been left with Prongs instead of Padfoot. (Though knowing Remus he’d probably just assume if he were with James James would be pining for Sirius.) And that's not even getting into the general awkwardness when two people in the same group who aren't friends with each other get thrown together. The two of them may not be that used to dealing with each other one-on-one, or if they were, that doesn't mean they are used to it now. Heh--now I'm picturing Remus writing for advice: "Dear Ann Landers, I've recently begun living with an old friend from high school..."

On Sirius' side, Remus thought he was guilty for 13 years. Again, so much for any romanticized notion of MWPP being faithful brothers to the end. If he's impatient with Harry for not doing something wild and heroic, I imagine he might feel the same way about Remus, who was never the wildly heroic member of MWPP (rather he seems to have been the closest one to a conscious they had, milquetoast-y version that he was). I wouldn't be surprised if he had convinced himself that James would have broken him out of Azkaban himself or uncovered the real killer because he didn't believe it of Sirius. Being left instead with Remus, who seems more accepting of fate (both his own and Sirius’), might have been even more difficult. I can just easily see Sirius driven crazy by this. In school Sirius probably thought they were Masters of the Universe, but what kind of response would they have had to their adults selves as kids? Both men are described as looking older than their ages too, worn down by life, so there’s the ruined beauty aspect as well.

It’s assumed that Sirius is on edge because of being cooped up in Grimmauld Place, but I don't feel like the most tragic thing about Sirius is that he's stuck back in the house he left which is like Azkaban (as has been pointed out, Sirius dealt better with Azkaban), but rather that there’s no place else he’s got to be. His life seems to be effectively over in OotP--everything is about the past. It seems awful that his mother is constantly haranguing him about bringing half-bloods into the house, but sometimes it seems like that's what’s keeping Sirius alive in the end. It’s the one way he can revisit his glory days, when he probably participated in a million rows and then made grand exit from that house. At 16 this was his great rebellion. At 40 (or however old he is) the only people he's got to rebel against are his mother's portrait and Kreacher--a painting and something that already has to do his bidding. How the mighty have fallen. But would he really have been happier if Dumbledore had gotten him a cozy cottage filled with Precious Moments figurines that said “World’s Best Godfather” he wasn’t allowed to leave instead? That might have driven him crazy faster. Grimmauld Place brought out some of the ugliest sides of his personality, but maybe kept him from feeling completely emasculated by at least giving him ghosts to wrestle.

Confronting one's high school-self, when one was a Big Man on Campus in high school is always a little painful. A lot of guys, though, find ways of staying on top or at least telling themselves that they have. They're no longer fit or have a full head of hair; they can't score the winning touchdown any longer, but they have a family, their sons are strong, they make a lot of money, they have a trophy wife, a big house, a career. They have something in which to take pride. Sirius and Remus are like the dream of the vindictive outcast--the popular guys winding up with nothing, partially due to the very things that made them the popular guys. Even Snape, who unfortunately can't just relax and consider this his revenge, sometimes scores a hit by pointing this out. I mean, speaking from an adult's perspective, even if the Marauders Map can still make Snape boil by making fun of his hair and his nose, Snape's the one with the life because he's the one who can hold down a job and support himself. Trapped as Snape is, he's freer than Sirius or Remus. Not only can Sirius not save Harry’s life, he’s got to be taken care of and protected, just like Harry. The only one of that class at Hogwarts who seems capable of taking an active role in things is Snape.

What’s sad is it’s possible that if a first-year was told these there hate each other because they’re still living their “cool” vs. “uncool” days, the student might just find it ridiculous since none of them are cool now.
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ext_6866: (la_pensee in the Garden of Wasted Things)

From: [identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com

Re: *is not biased at all, clearly*


Also, the guy had 13 years in Azkaban to create this obsession. It was James and Lily who were murdered, so in his mind for the past decade it may have been all about him and James. We really don't know how he obsessed over it--except that he said he blamed himself for their death.

I can easily imagine Sirius and James sharing a cell in prison, with Sirius holding long conversation with the James in his head. He may have both helped him through it and made him feel guilty and worthless.
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