H/D, post-OotP

[sistermagpie]

wayfairer asks the state of H/D in the wake of OotP. She makes a lot of great points about how writers are dealing with the questions OotP leaves us with, and asked other people's opinions of H/D in light of that...and my comment got long enough that I figured it was really a post. Basically, I'm

You know, I wonder if part of the problem too is that on Harry's side we know he's gutted at the moment--faced with Draco he feels detached, and what do you do with that? (Detached, but able to feel a distant pleasure in seeing Malfoy so angry)

On Draco's side, we've got Harry having just taken his father away--the ultimate thing, based on Draco's limited dialogue in canon so far. This must be dealt with if you're dealing with sixth year, and Aja wonders how many writers actually are. It strikes me, though, that they really can't because we have no canon to go on. Up until now H/D has dealt with Lucius whatever way the author wanted. Draco could secretly hate his father, or have grown out of his attachment, or Lucius could just be a regular rich parent or could abuse him. Because we really have no idea. Draco's a big performer, so must of what we hear about Lucius is an act. This is not to say the truth must be the opposite of what Draco is saying, but clearly he mostly invokes Lucius' name for effect, to impress, to threaten, etc. The very first thing we hear about Lucius is that he's going to buy Draco a broom whether he likes it or not-and it's an untruth.
There's only one scene of Draco and Lucius in canon and it's in front of a shopkeeper so even that, while more relaxed, isn't completely honest. I would say there's only one single unguarded moment between Lucius and Draco in canon and Lucius isn't even there--it's when Draco calls him "Dad." It's one word, but hey, apparently the entire dynamic of R/S was changed by just a few words in OotP (Sit down, Sirius!--and Remus becomes a dom at last;-) )

I know when I finished reading OotP, when I thought of Draco the scene that drew me had nothing to do with Harry either--I just had this picture in my mind of his being taken home and unsluggified, probably set out on a bench in the garden or on a couch inside, maybe with Crabbe and Goyle, humiliated, and facing his mother and an empty house for the first time. Yet I couldn't be sure how to even imagine Narcissa because we don't know her. Truth be told, we don't know how the dynamic between Lucius and Draco worked either. So while Draco seems canonically to have had the most important thing in the world taken away from him, we know nothing about how to approach it. Even if you're confident in your general impressions of their relationship (it's positive/it's negative/it's abusive/it's not) you've got no Draco/Lucius interaction to jump off from, like you would with the Weasleys.

Perhaps this is why Fanon!Draco, is often unattached to Lucius. The tiny hint we get in OotP suggests something different, a relationship that, imo, can change the way H/D has to work, one where Draco is the underdog in ways he hasn't been before. I don't mean to suggest Harry has completely triumphed within the *series.* He's still fighting his Big Bad, Voldemort. But from Draco's pov, it's all about Potter, who's taken just about everything. Up until now, "everything" has meant popularity, school power, Quidditch stardom. It could be funny. Draco could still strut around in fanfic, or be fanon!Draco and just a brat. But losing a father...that demands some respect. And no, I don't mean OMG HARRY IS SO MEEN AND DRACO IZ TOTALLY TEH VICTUM NOW!!!111 I just mean: you've got a character who's always been defined by family, whose family and personal god has been taken away by this person. Doesn't matter that Lucius had it coming or chose to break the law, because to me we're more in Godfather/Sopranos territory now. If Draco just let's Harry take his father and does nothing, he's not a man and can't ever be.

I think that's why, oddly, the one post-OotP fic that I remember really feeling was onto something was Cassie Claire's How to Disappear, which is unfortunately still incomplete as far as I know. What I loved about this fic is that Draco is, in his way, the hero. He hasn't been given any special powers, or become cooler. Harry isn't torn down to build him up, though he's in that same place as he was at the end of OotP, numb, but able to feel an echo of pleasure in seeing Malfoy suffer. What makes Draco a hero--to me--is just that he makes the decision to do something for his father, something very small and therefore able to be done by him. He grovels to Harry. Iow, he agrees to endure, to suffer, for somebody else. For someone believable--for Lucius, for his family.

But that's a very different dynamic from pervious H/D, which was about rivalry, often with Draco characterized as having nothing to really feel anything about. Even when people discuss Draco's position in sixth year they more often talk about the school and the other Slytherins rejecting him and how he will deal with the loss of status, which is the way fanfic usually focused on it when it got rid of Lucius and Narcissa as well.

Comments

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the whole thing of Harry having to notice him actually turned on its head post-OotP, because before that I think writers generally relied on the fact that no matter how hard Harry tried he couldn't *not* notice him. This holds true throughout OotP. It's only in that last scene where Harry's moved so far beyond Draco, and Draco's big tragedy is literally an afterthought. Harry didn't even connect what had happened at the MoM to Draco, because let's face it, he doesn't really see Draco's relationship to Lucius having anything in common with the relationship he would have had with James, or the Weasleys have with Arthur, or he had with Sirius. Yet it's this moment when JKR chooses to have Draco call Lucius Dad.

I see the way you're seeing it, with it not being about the specific relationship to Lucius but Draco making his point that this is the worst thing that ever happened *to him.* That's your Draco alright.:) And I love him. But I guess I'm also interested in a Draco who would be different about this particular incident, so for once it really wasn't just about him or rage, but about a connection to another person. It's just another possibility that fandom, I think, has less to work with to show.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Ahahah, I'm all sheepish now ^^;;; Man, do I really write both Harry & Draco as completely self-centered? ><; It's interesting, because Draco's relationship with Lucius is quite different in the Death Eater!Draco fic than in the one where Lucius gets taken away and Draco is angry at him as much as at Harry, really, because Lucius doesn't break free and he feels pressured and unable to help or escape-- and disappointed, too. I wrote that first fic right after OoTP, and I still wanted Draco to turn away from his father at that point, so perhaps that's filtering my perceptions. That has gotten to be less important to me, and the Draco-Lucius thing has gotten more complicated in my head-- to the point where in the Death Eater!Draco thing, Draco decides that with Lucius gone, he should take responsibility and do what his father would have wanted him to do (which is rather difficult, but he feels he -must- now). I sort of invented a history for that, in terms of his father training him in little ways from an early age, and those lessons affecting Draco more on a subconscious level than a conscious one-- and finally he has several turning points where these things come to the surface, and he sort of realizes that he'll never be good enough for Lucius-- or for Harry-- though this is after he becomes a Death Eater and completely fails to torture a Mudblood like his father wants him to.

So there's more than one possibility in my head. On the one hand, I want Draco to just be angry at his father too, for leaving him, and at himself for being so helpless, and at Potter for being the source of all evil-- but on the other hand, I also see how fascinating it would be to make that connection/need for Lucius be Draco's 'fatal flaw', of sorts, something he'd keep trying to achieve even when it becomes completely ridiculous-- because then he realizes he can't succeed at much but he tries anyway, because what else can he do?

I don't know if I meant that Draco's rage was selfish-- I just mean this is the lowest he's ever felt, so this gives him power over Harry to some slight extent. I mean, with Draco, it's always about the connection to another person-- whether Harry or Lucius, but generally both. He's both bound to them and completely set apart from them, unable to touch them because they're out there doing things-- failing or succeeding-- while he's just on the sidelines, heckling and grumbling and eventually having to take it. I didn't mean to make it about him and his rage at all, I just meant that to make it -more- about him, to give him more power, because before he was so powerless and completely dependent, you know?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, I do see what you mean. I think it's a little of what I was saying to malafede above too--that Draco may not be able to just turn up his nose and dismiss Lucius but that doesn't mean his relationship to him has to be static. I've always thought his relationship with Lucius seemed actually a lot like his relationship with Harry, in a way. And Snape as well. He seems to want to impress, and get approval, and connect that to feeling secure or loved or whatever. Feel okay with himself. Harry outright rejects him and it enrages him, but the source of his rage is clear for all to see--it's the rejection. No matter how much he rails about not liking Potter obviously the problem was that he put himself out there and was rejected and humiliated. Harry still has that power over him.

Snape, otoh, seems to have been a more positive experience (though that could sour if Draco later feels betrayed for Harry). Snape gives him praise and special regard in class. He hates Harry--and possibly in Draco's mind it's partially because Draco does, what Harry did to Draco. In response Draco in canon is, imo, blatantly eager to do for Snape in return. I think he really wants them to be friends.

Lucius is the most complicated, because I think he gives mixed messages. At times Draco probably wins his approval, and he certainly tells Draco he's superior just because he's a Pureblood and a Malfoy, but then he also criticizes him and suggests the only thing he's got going for him is that. So, like I said above, perhaps the big thing with Draco and Lucius isn't to figure out a way for Draco to stop loving Lucius, because he's yet to stop feeling any passionate feeling about anyone so far, but to figure out a way to make Draco have to confront the possibility that Lucius doesn't love him.

[yourpoison.livejournal.com]

Of course... I mean... it's not enough by a long shot. I mean, I agree, it's about Draco confronting Lucius' failure in some central way, but that still doesn't bring H/D together, and in fact I believe if you had a strong bond between them that occured parallel to Draco still being loyal to Lucius and on the road to Death Eaterdom, they are still possible as a couple (ala `Tale of the Shining Prince' or a zillion hatefuck fics). There's a tendency to talk about -Draco- when people bring up H/D, as if Harry is something to 'add on' or tag along or as if people can take him for granted. I dunno, have you noticed this? The H/D fandom really seems like it's All About Draco-- as far as the problem and also the draw. Draco's hot, Draco's a brat, Draco's irredeemable/redeemable-- but this is a -relationship-, after all. It's not really about Draco but about Draco-and-Harry and... the Harry part is equally important, right.

People just avoid Harry, 'cause I'm sure no one knows where to start-- you can say he 'should' like/see Draco, or 'why not' or, 'he needs to figure out Slytherins aren't All Bad'-- but none of that makes me think of a romantic relationship. Honestly, the only people who mention Harry are like, 'well, he needs love and Draco can give it to him'. That's kind of funny, actually, as if he -wants- Malfoy, of all people, to give it to him. Draco's easy, actually-- he's obsessed already. Lucius is a detail that may or may not -break- their relationship when it's started, and it shapes the form it takes (more angry, vengeful, desperate Draco to work with), but it's not actually describing -what- the relationship would be like or what issues it has day-to-day or in really getting off the ground, even. The meat is Harry, and people just... use meat substitutes all the time, it feels like, in fic -and- discussion. (Am I bitter?? Of course not!! *coughs*)

I don't think there's a good reason (per se) for Harry to want/like Draco, Lucius or no. Of course, it's not about reasons, but it -is- about Harry and what Harry wants in a partner and what Harry's attracted to-- 'cause Draco already's attracted to Potter on -some- level, at least. So really, giving Draco more 'freedom' to want Potter by altering his relationship with his father leaves him... where? -More- desperate for Potter... who still doesn't want him.

This is where canon and canon-discussion fails and only fic can pic up the thread, btw~:)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

OOh! This is great and I totally agree--it's like how I know I've said how people complain about Fanon!Draco as if Harry is IC when he's not, and this is the same thing--it's meat substitute. Harry's just given some attraction from beyond or something like that. People don't want to get into what he wants in Malfoy...and he does want *something.* It's not as close to slashy as Draco is, because, as you said, Draco is attracted to Harry on some level (ironically, a lot of cliche H/D reverses it and has Harry the one who's just attracted while Draco has to be convinced). Harry, otoh, is basically repelled by Draco, and has been since day 1.

But there's a passion to it, something he can't ignore. He chose Draco as his enemy, no matter how he wants to deny it. To make the ship work realistically you'd have to deal with that, I think. That's part of what I like about the set-up in Cassie's story, that Draco offers himself as the punching bag Harry tends to use him as, encouraging him to have it, give in to every negative impulse he's ever had. And Harry starts experimenting with it. It's negative, but it's also got Harry *thinking* about Draco and what he wants from him and why, and that, I think, could be the start of any number of interesting transformations for Harry.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

but about a connection to another person

Isn't that one of the main differences between Harry and Draco though? Outward focus and inner focus. Harry's focus is on himself, Draco's focus is all outside - which doesn't mean for a second that he's compassionate or charitable or sees The Other as an... equal recipient of empathy. He's narcissistic, the Other is his audience and the marker of his Self, he measures his worth against them and the core of his emotions is the drive to get their attention and love. This is why it's kind of obvious to me that Draco gives Harry his attention (and submission, as one possibility, later on) and Harry doesn't. It's not a question of who loves more, or is more into the relationship, it's just different personality types.

Though, honestly, I tend to think - in very general terms - that while Harry is a better person, Draco loves more. Mine does, at least. Unhealthy love, selfish love, castrating love, but still more. Maybe Harry's love is just stunted and that's why I perceive it as less? That's another possibility.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

It just occurred to me that I'm so dead certain of my take on it, but of course I realise other people's pov is different and just as valid for them... this has to be why I always, always, always thought the Draco in The Tale of the Shining Prince (by Olympia) was perfectly and poignantly canon, while others label him as fanon whitout a second thought.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Actually, I tend to see it that way too. I think that's why it always bugs me when it's suggested Harry's big gift is LOVE, that his mother loved him more, or he's got this great ability to love. It's not that I see Harry as incapable of love or anything like that, it's just that if I was going to think of his primary descriptors "loving" would never be on the list. Draco, by contrast, seems constantly at the mercy of love, even if it doesn't look like that to others. Like I said in the other post, he does seem pathetically dependent on others caring for him. That seems to drive both his positive qualities (not that we've seen much of those, exactly) and his negative ones.

That's also why I don't get it when people describe Draco's initial encounters with Harry as not being personal, that he just wanted Harry for a friend because he was Harry Potter or that Harry is just the only thing he ever wanted he didn't get. To me it seems like those initial encounters set up his entire personality in every scene. He did want a personal connection with Harry; he did want a friend; he wanted to be liked, despite the fact that he's so obnoxious about other people, acting like he's above most of them. That personal rejection has fueled his rage for years. If he was just being bratty on principle he would be a different character, imo.

[malafede.livejournal.com]

It's kinda funny because Draco didn't know Harry was Harry, so how would he be trying to impress Harry Potter as opposed to a random kid who struck him as interesting? :D In a way, Draco chose Harry. And Harry made Draco choose him, later on, with his rejection.