Ron and Hermione at the Yule Ball

[sistermagpie]

In his totally enjoyable read-through of GoF, pauraque has gotten to the Yule Ball, and Ron's treatment of Hermione therein. It made me look at it from Ron's pov

In his recap of chapter 23 he says :

'Viktor's just gone to get some drinks.'

Ron gave her a withering look.

'Viktor?' he said. 'Hasn't he asked you to call him Vicky yet?'

Hermione looked at him in surprise.

'What's up with you?' she said.

'If you don't know,' said Ron scathingly, 'I'm not going to tell you.' (366)

'[H]e said he'd been coming to the library every day to try and talk to me, but he hadn't been able to pluck up the courage!'

[...]

'Yeah, well -- that's his story,' said Ron nastily.

'And what's that supposed to mean?'

'Obvious, isn't it? He's Karkaroff's student, isn't he? He knows who you hang around with ... he's just trying to get closer to Harry[...]' (367)

pauraque: Goddamn! I generally like Ron, but he's such a bitch in this scene. The "If you don't know, I'm not telling you" is especially outrageous (I despise it when people say that to me), but telling his supposed friend that she only got a date because he's trying to spy on Harry? Again, I don't really get it... If the idea is that he's attracted to her, WHY is he constantly putting her down? WHY does he keep going on about how absurd it is that anyone could BE attracted to her? He honestly sounds like he's jealous of her for dating him, not jealous of him for dating her. No slash goggles required. Hermione is right to get upset.

This made me first realize that Ron does the same thing to Hermione as Arthur does to Percy. She shows up pleased with herself for having been chosen by someone and looking nice, and Ron says Viktor could never like her for herself, he just wants to get to Harry. So she's even more humiliated, because she was feeling so good the moment before.

As pauraque points out, Ron really is a bitch in this scene. I started thinking about why. We know the Weasleys, for all of Ginny's sass, are a very traditional family. All the boys are very protective of their little sister. Ron's "almost calling Ginny a slut," as angry as it makes fandom, is not just Ron almost calling Ginny a slut, it's Ron concerned that his sister will be called a slut by others for making out with people in public--think Tony Manero to Angela in Saturday Night Fever: "Are you happy now? Now you're a pig." It's ugly, but Ron's and the Twins' concern isn't just about their being stupid, it's about how they see the world working. Ron's not really wrong after all--people in fandom actually do call Ginny a slut!

That was a total tangent, written really just to point out that the Weasleys are very traditional and often unsophisticated when it comes to men and women, and this has always suited them just fine. They make a distinction between "girls like this" and "girls like that." And I think that unfortunate, ugly subtext is present in Ron's accusations of Hermione here. His anger at her and his accusations, to me, echo Molly's "scarlet woman" accusations of later on.

But I don't think that's all it is. I don't think the problem is that Ron thinks Hermione is a whore in the scene. I think it's something more about Ron. We're hit over the head with the fact that the boys don't even immediately recognize Hermione when she walks into the ball. (I'll quote pauraque here because he's funny>:

It was Hermione.

But she didn't look like Hermione at all. She had done something with her hair; it was no longer bushy, but sleek and shiny, and twisted up into an elegant knot at the back of her head. She was wearing robes made of a floaty, periwinkle-blue material, and she was holding herself differently somehow -- or maybe it was merely the absence of the twenty or so books she usually had slung over her back.

[...]

Parvati was gazing at Hermione in unflattering disbelief. She wasn't the only one, either[...] (360)

And her eyes were violet, and she was the last of the cat people, and she was secretly Sirius's daughter, and a flying unicorn Animagus, and and and!

*snicker* Honestly.

While my first thought is to think Ron and Harry don't recognize Hermione because as described she sounds like a chaperone in her periwinkle and modest twist hair, we get that she's supposed to be suddenly pretty. We're not told she's wearing make-up, perhaps because Harry might not think of it or perhaps because, in the fine tradition of Mary Sues, Hermione does not have to wear it, but I'm assuming she is enjoying the effects make-up can give even without using it: it makes her look different.

She is different, probably even more so for Ron. Ron, I think, divides the world very clearly between one type of girl and another. This is why he gets uncomfortable when the one kind (like his sister) acts like the other kind (by making out in a hallway). In Hermione's case, though, I don't think Ron is upset by Hermione dressing in a way that suggests she's sexually available in a general way. I think her showing up as a different girl with Viktor makes him upset that she's not this girl with *him.*

I mean, from the girls' pov--certainly from Hermione's--it's very empowering and sensible to say you're not going to waste time dolling yourself up everyday. But from the boys' pov it may be more straightforward: you make an effort to look pretty for him and not for me. Ron spends time with the bushy-haired Hermione who snaps and nags. Viktor comes along and she goes to great lengths to do what Ron isn't worth--get dolled up. I would suspect that up until this moment it never occurred to Ron that she *could* look like that, because in his mind there's girls who do and girls who don't. It's all very well to demand, on principle, that a boy be less shallow, but they really do often see a huge difference depending how one is dressed.

See, there's always a lot of emphasis put on the fact that Ron never treats Hermione well--he takes her for granted, he drools over Fleur, he doesn't even notice she's a girl. But by showing up at the ball with Viktor looking like that, Hermione is doing the exact same thing as Ron, making it clear that she does not find him desirable or care about him desiring her, it's *Viktor* she desires and wishes to find her desirable. pauraque describes Ron here as telling his friend that it's absurd that anyone could be actually attracted to her, but that may not be his intention. He doesn't insult Hermione's attempt at transformation or criticize her attempt to look pretty. It's more like he's accusing her for looking pretty all along and criticizing the man she's looking pretty for--he has nefarious motives.

And Hermione continues to do this throughout the series. Angry that Ron doesn't notice her, Hermione becomes even more adamant about not going out of her way to "chase" him. *He's* supposed to notice she's attractive and show her he has. Instead he goes after Lavender-and what did Lavender do? She treated Ron like a boy! She flirted with him, batted her eyelashes, made it clear she was interested. Everyone seems to take it for granted that it's obvious Hermione likes Ron (Harry knows it, but perhaps a "real" Harry, one who isn't really a fictional construct written by a woman, would not), but really, this is the only time in canon when Hermione really suggests that she's interested in this type of thing, and it's for somebody else. It's not that unbelievable to think that Ron, upon seeing Hermione at the ball, is drawing the same line that Hermione feels Ron is drawing for Fleur: that's a person I'm interested in sexually; you do not get that kind of notice from me. Ron's "Hermione, you're a girl!" line in GoF is pointed to as an example of his cluelessness--Viktor immediately saw her as a girl. But ironically, Hermione has yet to actually do the reverse with Ron. It's Lavender who treats him like a boy, not Hermione.

With Hermione safely tucked into the same category as "sisters" for Ron, he's probably unaware of how his staring at Fleur comes off to her--he doesn't think Hermione thinks about stuff like that anyway. As far as he's concerned at that moment, any romance within the Trio is unthinkable. Then, from his pov, Hermione suddenly reveals herself to have been a "real girl" all along, only that part of her is reserved for boys other than Ron, just as Ron's attention to female beauty seems to her to be reserved for girls like Fleur.

This is the reason Ron is such a bitch in the scene. He's not just putting her down out of spite, or being insensitive. I think he sees Hermione's appearance at the ball as a rejection, a sign that Hermione withholds this from him for a reason, and he automatically falls into a clumsy defense of himself: Oh, so you're "one of those girls" for him? I'm not good enough for you? Well, I'm the one who likes you for yourself. He's just trying to get to Harry.

I think this is why JKR can drag this romance out in ways that H/G could never have been. Harry and Ginny have never been "just friends." They began their relationship as a potential couple with Ginny's crush. Not to mention the fact that Ginny has always been a potential love object, period. Throughout the series she's pursued and been pursued by males. There's no "wait, you're a girl?" moment with Ginny, because being a girl has always been her main defining feature.

p.s. So I see one comment about changing the "currents" on my flist and finally tackled S2. I felt like I had to try to keep things as close to the same as possible, but I'm still tweaking. I think I spent about 5 hours last night working on getting things almost the same, just to change that one thing!

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

I always read it kind of the other way around, actually-- girls like Lavender and Parvati have no interest in Hermione because Hermione *isn't* the type to fawn over the boys and spend hours on her hair.

But, I also freely admit that I might be projecting some of myself into Hermione's character on that point-- I was always a plain, bookish girl who didn't care enough about her looks to do anything with her hair, and frankly, I spent my early teenage years wishing I could be part of a group somewhere, though it took me quite a while to find one. And, as I grew older, I developed a real contempt for those girls who were sickeningly sweet when they wanted a lab partner, and who made condescending comments about showing me something to do with my hair. I've always had a hard time carrying on conversations with females my own age-- they seem to be talking about tv shows I don't watch, magazines I don't read, stores I don't shop at and clubs I don't go to. On the flip side, if I try to engage them in a conversation about the theme of voicelessness in The World According to Garp, most of my peers look at me like I've sprouted two heads-- they've never read the book, and if they did, they certainly wouldn't equate a dozen characters with speech problems to societal oppression and taboo.

The contempt/disinterest was and is entirely mutual, and that's what I see between Hermione and Lavender/Parvati-- girls who have nothing in common, and who each represent something the other yearns for.

In the first book, we do see a Hermione who feels very sharply that she's an outcast and a misfit-- she's crying in the bathroom, remember? Why? Because Ron made a comment about no one liking her.

Ginny, by contrast, does like Hermione. She (at least kind of) knows her through Ron, so Ginny is a different type of girl. For one thing, she's not competition, for another, she and Hermione *do* have something in common-- Ron, and Harry later on. Aside from that, I've never had the impression that Ginny is shallow, the way Lavender and Parvati and Cho come off. Ginny is witty and smart and talented, and I get the impression that she could hold her own in a conversation with Hermione. I can see Lavender kind of smiling and playing dumb (whether she actually is or not).

Once again, though, I'm projecting into all of these girls. I see Parvati and Lavender as the cheerleader-types, pretty, popular, flirty and feminine, yes, but nothing else. Ginny, by contrast, adds athletic, powerful, witty and sensible to the mix.

[dazzleberry.livejournal.com]

And the anon post was from me

[ackonrad.livejournal.com]

girls like Lavender and Parvati have no interest in Hermione because Hermione *isn't* the type to fawn over the boys and spend hours on her hair.

I would accept this as an explanation if it wasn't for two things - first, we don't know that much about Lavender and Parvati to put them into the 'cheerleader girl' category, and second, in HBP Hermione spent most of her time being concentrated on Ron and dating other boys just to annoy him, so IMO, she definitely was fawning over him. In comparison, we haven't seen Parvati fawn over anyone, and as for Lavender, just like Hermione, we've seen her fawning over one boy, namely Ron. I can't recall to have read anywhere that Parvati and Lavender are girls who fawn over boys and think of their pretty hair. Sure, we've seen them giggle a couple of times, but then again, we've seen Ginny giggle, too. Sure, Lavender and Parvati did admire Professor Trelawney, who is a horrible teacher, but Hermione and Ginny admired Hagrid, who is a horrible teacher, too. IMO, Lavender and Parvati are too vague described to be put into a certain category and say that Hermione wasn't worthy of them because she is a bookworm. It's Hermione who talked condescendingly of Fleur, not the other way around.

In the first book, we do see a Hermione who feels very sharply that she's an outcast and a misfit-- she's crying in the bathroom, remember? Why? Because Ron made a comment about no one liking her.

Well, I know I'm going to be in the minority with this comment, but I think that it's not easy to like Hermione. I was a studious girl, too, and even though I've always been vain, I happened to be very good friends with a girl the type you described - girl who didn't pay attention to her looks and was a bookworm like me nonetheless. The problem is, however, that this is not the only thing that characterises Hermione. She is a lot more than a girl who doesn't care about her hair and reads a lot. Being a bookworm and being an annoying (IMO) Know-It-All is not necessarily related.

Aside from that, I've never had the impression that Ginny is shallow, the way Lavender and Parvati and Cho come off.

Well, it seems that we have a very different perception of Ginny and therefore can't agree on that. I see the way Ginny treated both Michael (dumping him because he was a bad loser and then going and crashing into Zacharias Smith after a Quidditch match because of something he said is shallow to me) and Dean (dumping him because he wanted to help her to go through the portrait of the Fat Lady is shallow in my eyes) as not only shallow, but also immature. I don't see why exactly people think that Lavender sucking face with Ron makes her shallow, but Ginny sucking face with Dean makes her mature.

Ginny is witty and smart and talented

This is, again, a matter of opinion. I agree about the talented part, but I've never found anything Ginny's said witty or funny. The entire 'Phlegm' comments were lame and IMO, spoke of a girl who has a lot of growing to do. As for the smart part, I still have to see it, because only hearing of her amazing use of the Bat-Bogey hex can't convince me she's as wonderful as JKR clearly wants her to be.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Actually, I do think that Parvati and Lavender are subtly shown to be a bit more interested in looks in the narrator's opinion--and this is coming soley from my memory of a scene where Parvati is curling her eyelashes with her wand while they talking about Firenze being the new teacher. There she and Lav are being mildly provoking to Hermione, but only to say they bet Hermione now regrets dropping Potions (where she was rude to the teacher they like).

Hermione, otoh, to me always seems negative and impatient about Parvati and Lavender in ways we've never seen them be about her. I honestly can't think of any time that the two of them seem to be obnoxious to her. It's more that she shows impatience towards them. I can only remember Pansy being mean to her about her looks.

It does seem to me that Hermione doesn't have friends in her dorm, which would make me lonely--in OotP it honestly seems like she is staying up late to avoid bedtime with her dormmates. But like you said, it's a bit of a leap to say this is because the other girls rejected her first because she was too intellectual, and not necessarily fair to say that they are incapable of any interesting conversation. Parvati stands up for people at times in the books and Lavender is one of the kids who stays behind to help with Hagrid's Skrewts so they're not overly prissy, even if they are very much girls. What we more get is Hermione's attitude, which seems to be frankly superior, so why assume it was them who were rejecting first? Like you said, there's a difference between being bookish and being a know-it-all, and Harry and Ron don't like Hermione first year either. They're hardly intellectual companions. I mean, not being interested in fashion or make-up doesn't immediately make you a deep person, and looking fashionable doesn't make you shallow. Even Harry finds it a bit tedious hanging out with Hermione alone.

Cho doesn't start getting disapproval until OotP where she seems to be confused and grieving over a boy she really liked, and this is eventually characterized as a character flaw (even while Harry is having his own tantrums all over the place). I have a problem with the way the narration seems to view groups of giggling girls--i.e., a group of girls who are laughing together. Why is MWPP ("let's play dumb jokes and talk about sports!") held up as a great example of friendship but two or more girls enjoying "girlie" jokes shallow? From Harry's pov I think it's just supposed to be a joke on girls being intimidating to him, but sometimes the narrator seems to add something more judgmental.

As for Hermione and Ginny, as I've said before, to me their relationship reads like two sisters in law. They're friends through their men, not because Ginny is so much more witty or talented than other girls in the school (which I certainly don't think she is-and really, if Ron called somebody "Pghlem" would Hermione consider it witty?). I don't think they'd any more be friends than Hermione and Hannah Abbot if Ginny wasn't a Weasley. But then, I also am annoyed by that scene that makes it clear the H/G is about to happen--Hermione gets too critical of Harry and Ginny gets, imo, unnecessarily vicious (and that's when I knew H/G was just around the corner). The structure of their relationship has always been built around the men folk. Parvati, Lavender and Cho are the ones who have "best friends" who are girls, and unfortunately this sometimes seems to be part of their problem.

[slinkhard.livejournal.com]

I honestly can't think of any time that the two of them seem to be obnoxious to her.

They actually seem slightly kinder than her - iirc, they laugh at Ron's impression of Hermione in HBP; but Parvati feels guilty.

They're friends through their men

Yup, even in GoF, pre New!Ginny; the only conversation we ever hear of them having is telling each other who they're going to the Yule Ball with.

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Hi, I got here from the Daily Snitch. Sorry to just jump in like this! I agree with almost everything you're saying, both in the main post and in this answer. It's a very interesting essay.

However, I don't think Cho got disapproval from the text, just from Harry. To me it read like Cho wanted something from Harry that he didn't have, and Harry wanted something from Cho that she didn't have. They had both gone and made an image of how the other person was, and then they found out that reality was quite a bit different.

I mean, isn't it fairly obvious that Harry says all the wrong things? He's acting his age, and Cho needed soemthing else right then. I thought it was more of a demonstration of how Harry was still clueless about girls than anything else, heh.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Good point--yes, the disapproval was from Harry (and Ginny, who is very dismissive of her) and fandom. I didn't think she came off that badly at all, personally, especially since Harry did pretty much everything wrong!

[lanjelin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I sat there laughing as I read it because Harry managed to say the worst things possible! It was funny because it seemed so real; the typical teenage fantasy relationship gone wrong.

And Harry didn't understand a thing, which I found adorable; but at the same time I couldn't help but feel sorry for poor Cho who got such a dense boyfriend. I guess now she knows not to date boys younger than yourself while you're still in your teens...