Crying in the Bathroom

[sistermagpie]

I was on HP4GU today and realized there was an actual Draco-related issue in HBP that I hadn't written thousands of words about--and it relates to Snape too! Anyway, we were talking about Harry feeling remorse about Sectumsempra even though it was self-defense yadda yadda, and I realized there was something I was kind of dancing around in talking about the scene that seemed really obvious but I actually don't think I've ever read much about it from this angle.

Ironically, the main references I have seen to Draco’s tears in discussions of Harry’s remorse were strictly defenses of Harry, saying that was moved by Draco's crying and maybe would have helped him if Malfoy hadn't gone postal, so Harry’s all the more innocent. (Regarding Draco the main question I've seen discussed is whether he's just afraid of failing or feeling anything more.)

To me the crying is more important than that. I think it was an intentional and important decision of JKR's to put the crying together with Sectumsempra. She was, as usual, pulling lots of threads together into one dramatic scene. On the mundane plot level, of course, she's just using this scene to get a number of things out of the way--she reveals that the boy Myrtle was meeting was Malfoy, reveals Malfoy's fear and the fact he's being threatened, and also reveals Sectumsempra and shows Snape that Harry's got his book etc. One poster (Carol) I think was also correct in saying Harry is learning the same important distinction Snape feels for him--he hates Draco, but he does not want him dead (more importantly, he doesn't want to kill him).

But I think there's another thing going on as well. I had in the past said I didn't think we could take it as a given that Harry would have been so sympathetic to Malfoy just because he saw him crying--after all, he's upset over the very thing that Harry wants to get him for. However Harry might have felt if Malfoy hadn't attacked him, he actually isn't sympathetic in the scene. His feelings are described as:

"And Harry realised, with a shock so huge it seemed to root him to the spot, that Malfoy was crying -- actually crying -- tears streaming down his pale face into the grimy basin. Malfoy gasped and gulped and then, with a great shudder, looked up into the cracked mirror and saw Harry staring at him over his shoulder. Malfoy wheeled round, drawing his wand. Instinctively Harry pulled out his own."

At the point Malfoy wheels around all Harry has felt is shock, a shock so huge that it "roots him to the spot" and keeps him from doing what he probably would have done had he found Malfoy just talking to Myrtle, which is hide and listen. Not stand there like a sitting duck in full view for a pretty long moment.

And the question is--why is he so shocked for so long? He's not just surprised here (like Malfoy when he found Harry and Snape doing their Occlumency lessons), he's so shocked he's having trouble taking it in. That shock is drawn out for two sentences, first Harry being physically rooted to where he's standing, then having to go over what he's seeing ("Malfoy was crying --actually crying --"). He's transfixed watching the physical crying--the tears falling into the basin, the gulping sobs. But what's so shocking here? I mean, so shocking that Harry has so much trouble processing it?

It's not shocking to a lot of readers, presumably. Myrtle's already told us some boy was crying in the bathroom and the law of character conservation made Malfoy the obvious candidate. Harry himself has been watching Malfoy's physical deterioration all year and been pleased by it because he knows it means the Voldemort plot isn't going well. Usually Malfoy in any kind of distress makes Harry pleased.

So what's so different here that it's so shocking? I think the idea is that Harry is shocked at suddenly seeing Malfoy, cliché as it sounds, as a real person. In the past the only feelings Harry's ever saw in Malfoy were negative ones: he's menacing, he hates Harry, he's a coward. He's also seen fake ones: he sucks up to people, he boasts, he struts, he plays up injuries. Did Harry really not see the vulnerability in him that many readers saw? Well, no, he probably didn't. As early as the Sorting scene Harry has actually imbued Malfoy with a sense of well-being and confidence so big he sees any evidence against it as a welcome, temporary aberration. I don't think it's unreasonable to say that up until that moment Harry really never has seen Malfoy as a boy like himself who might actually feel the same things Harry feels at times and have similar motivations. (It's really interesting the way it's both like and unlike the Pensieve scene with Snape, perhaps because Snape and Malfoy represent different shadows to Harry.)

I realize this sounds really cliché--but JKR isn't afraid of clichés when she's set them up well, and she has here. There's a reason this moment had already occurred in a hundred H/D fics before she wrote it. It's not about Harry suddenly feeling sorry for Malfoy--he doesn't in the scene. It's somehow exploding something that until that moment he'd taken for granted about Malfoy, something I doubt he'd ever really been aware of. Apparently Malfoy crying -- actually crying -- really is a shock for Harry who has more than once in the past wanted to cause him as much pain as possible. I’m not even sure just what it’s exploded—but maybe Harry doesn’t either. It’s not something he can immediately articulate like he can with James and Snape in the Pensieve (James is being an asshole and he’s supposed to be cool; I felt sorry for Snape and that’s all kinds of wrong because he’s usually the bully).

There's something about that moment that makes Malfoy different, and then it's immediately choked off--just as Harry's fleeting confusion about Snape after the Pensieve is choked off by Snape attacking him. Malfoy attacks him (he knows it's a naked moment, certainly), Harry instinctively defends himself. And this is the fight that leads to Harry hurting Malfoy more than he ever has, more than he imagined or really intended. I feel like you can't separate the two things completely. Even acknowledging that Harry was acting in self defense, this isn't just another scene where Harry strikes back at the Malfoy he knew before who was asking for it. Throughout the whole fight Harry is actually more strangely empathetic than Malfoy than he ever has been, I suspect.

Perhaps that's another reason Harry doesn't think about Malfoy at all after that. It's not just guilt at his (fixed) actions, perhaps, but the discomfort of his new intimacy with Malfoy. I'm not even sure if Harry told his friends about the crying--you'd think they'd have said something about it. He may still be having trouble processing it. The fight can distract him from it, but I think it's also connected to why he feels badly. I don't mean anything so literal as just Harry feels bad because he not only hurt Malfoy but Malfoy was sad right before he did it. I think it's more subtle.

Subtle, btw, in a way I again think parallels Snape. Harry also saw him in the exact kind of vulnerable moment he didn't associate with him, Snape also responded by attacking Harry, Harry defended himself again, focusing more on the unfair accusations. It's also kind of funny that this is Snape and Malfoy, both of whom are connected to Occlumency by Rowling. Occlumency, which she relates to cutting oneself off from feelings, which both Snape and Draco consider potential weaknesses even though they seem at heart more emotional than Harry (or in different ways). Harry has seen exactly what these two characters are always trying to hide, and up until the moments they hit him in the face, they were successful at hiding them from Harry.

Btw, how much do I love Stephen Colbert for putting Gwyneth Paltrow's head on his shelf? It's still the best moment in her career, imo.

Comments

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I really should start following HP4GU -- I don't know why I don't, just never got in the habit.

I came to it pretty late (to the annoyance of some, I think!), but there have been times when it's been a good source of really geeky intense arguments.:-)

Does Draco even understand that Harry hates him?

Good question. I'm trying to imagine what Harry seems to be from Draco's pov. There's a phrase I always think of, and I can't remember if I used it in the OP, but the phrase is "dipped in shit." I always imagine that that would describe maybe how Harry looks at him, from Draco's pov. It's like in the DTCL we just did where it's so tricky how JKR sets it up. We get all this stuff about Malfoy being an idiot telling flying stories (though this is apparently common amongst the boys) and how Harry fears making a fool of himself where Malfoy's there to laugh. By the time you get to class you, like Harry, are delighted when Madam Hootch tells Malfoy he's doing it wrong. It's only when you step back that you realize that you weren't cheering on a bully getting his comeuppance there. You were cheering for one ordinary boy out of the ten to fail publically. When Ron, Harry or Neville fails publically you empathize. With Draco he's always deserved it and the proper response is to laugh.

It's hard to imagine that Malfoy could really have a clue wat's going on in Harry's mind regarding him. What must he have imagined? He instinctively goes for the "my side vs. your side" thing.

By contrast Draco's aggression in the train compartment in HBP is physically much milder, more measured, but he clearly wants Harry to be thinking about him, and about Lucius, hour after hour, as he (hopefully) lies in the compartment, invisible and impotent, all the way back to London.

This is why it drives me crazy when people try to make that a murder attempt or something in order to make it the same as Harry when clearly it's not. The broken nose isn't even Draco's plan--that's for his father. His plan is strictly to leave Harry on the floor traveling back to London. As you said, it's about making him think about what he's done, traveling all the way back to London thinking about Draco.

Draco wants to be thought about by everyone, actually. I will link to my PR proposal once it goes up, but part of what I think will come into it is that Draco is the most aggressively social character in canon (until Slughorn, who does it in a different way). His view is basically that he's always trying to make more connections, and to make those connections he has to show himself a worthwhile connection, and part of doing that is showing proof that other people make connections with him. So he's always I think looking for proof of social significance--he needs Harry to remember he was right that day on the train (imagine going up to someone at the end of ninth grade and saying, "Remember what I said that day on the bus the first day of sixth grade?"), when he gets wind of a secret (valuable proof of acceptance) he has to drop hints of his knowledge to Harry.

Draco and Snape aren’t temperamentally similar at all; it’s hard to know where to even start comparing them.

That's why I've always wanted and still want scenes with the two of them. They're such a funny odd couple. I wonder if Snape had a relationship with Lucius, but even if he did his kid is so different. You wonder if they had to get past any initial superficial issues in the beginning. You can imagine Draco picking on Snape's appearance if he were another teacher. You can imagine Snape cutting Draco down as a clown if he were another student. How do they make it work? Does Snape allow himself affection for Draco?

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[saylee.livejournal.com]

When I picture Snape and Draco, I see Draco nattering away at him, and Snape kind of rolling his eyes, but being amused. I see Snape feeling affection for Draco, but being all sarcastic, because it makes him feel awkward. And Draco picking up on that- because living with Lucius would probably make noticing subtleties like that useful- and feeling all special because of it. Yeah... I don't know where I'm going with this.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hee--that's totally what I see too. Draco prattling and strutting and Snape showing amusement. Suddenly I've got these Brokeback Mountain images in my head, the way Jack clowned around for the smallest reaction from Ennis. And of course that goes for Snape too. He really doesn't have too many positive relationships.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to imagine what Harry seems to be from Draco's pov.

This is really hard to do but it's also interesting to try. Based on the way Harry interacts with Snape -- that combination of refusing to engage with what Snape specifically says to him, effortlessly lying to him, and just mirroring back general hostility -- I suspect the most maddening thing about Harry, if you're not his friend, is the way he just refuses to acknowledge people or take them seriously. He has a tendency to stare right past people, to brush them off, and even if he's drawn into a confrontation he handles himself as if the other person is a nuisance or irritation he'd like to be done with as quickly as possible. So in this sense I think he very specifically pushes Draco's attention buttons. Although Draco knows he can provoke a physically or verbally violent response from Harry now and then, and however empty this is as a connection at least it's a response, so he finds it irresistible to do this. I wonder if "my side vs. your side" is really so central to how Draco thinks, or just the tool he finds most convenient for prying at Harry, specifically, when he wants to get Harry's attention.

Maya has spun this out as Harry being socially clueless and isolated and there's probably some of that -- I'm struck again and again by the thinness of his friendships at Hogwarts. For example, in CoS it's surprising how many students, who you'd think would have had a year to get to know him, are willing to turn on him very quickly. And of course in OOTP Hogwarts Express scene when Ron and Hermione go to the prefects' car we suddenly realize how few other friends Harry has. But I don't think he quite comes off as socially pathetic. Probably more cliquish, if a bit pathologically so. We've talked about how his DA connections seem to stop mattering to him in HBP, and even Ernie McMillan, who seems open to a continuing friendship with him, gets a sort of brush off, and Harry blasts right by Ernie with an "out of my way!" as he's chasing Snape after the Tower scene. On the other hand, I'm also struck by the way Zach, in his quidditch commentary, focuses on those Weasley jerks and Harry's misguided alliance with them rather than on attacking Harry directly. So he has some residual mana despite his behavior -- I think Harry's social indifference puzzles people; he's one of these people who you look at and you wonder why they don't make more effort. He's weird but not to-be-dismissed!weird, and maybe Draco shares some of this puzzlement. Still, I wonder if, if it weren't for the numinous connection to Voldemort and the TBWL legend, people would just dismiss him as a disagreeable and uninteresting person.

Hmmm. None of this is very profound. But I'll post it anyway as a monument to puzzlement! :)

Draco is the most aggressively social character in canon . . . His view is basically that he's always trying to make more connections, and to make those connections he has to show himself a worthwhile connection . . . he's always I think looking for proof of social significance

That's a really interesting frame for looking at Draco. I would love to see that argument laid out. I actually would probably be coming from a more contrarian take on that issue, but I'm not committed to it and would love to explore your version. I was thinking this over as part of the daddy debate on Maya's post and have a whole bunch of muddled thoughts that I still need to whip into shape. Basically I agree that Draco has that urge for connetion but he's almost too hungry for it; I think some of Draco's social behavior is surprisingly brittle and unsuccessful. And I wonder whether his peers are really the field of his most important social battles, or whether they're bit players in his ongoing effort to attract adult approval, tools for trying out experiments and markers for recording his success. It's not fair for me to put it so glibly here without supporting evidence, but let me come back to it at some point because as I say, I'm not committed to it but puzzling through it and would be fascinated to compare cases and impressions with you.

[continued . . . ]

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

[. . . continued]

I've always wanted and still want scenes with the two of them.

Me too! I think JKR's left herself no choice but to do a lot of Draco-Snape stuff in Book 7, so I'm really looking forward to it. I think your questions nail it -- is there more history here than we know, so that they really have worked through some of these issues already? Is Snape capable of being genuinely fond of Draco, and if so does Draco realize how big a deal this is for Snape?

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I actually would probably be coming from a more contrarian take on that issue,

Well, now you've got to give me your impressions when I explain it because I can't write something knowing you might have talked me out of it in five minutes! The idea isn't so much that Draco sees peer relationships as more important. It's more just that the way he interacts with people, especially Harry, seems to be about defining worth through this kind of contact. From the time he first meets Harry he does the two things he always does: he gives reasons why he's a great person (good at Quidditch, etc.), and testament that other people love him a lot (my father totally buys me what I want). What's later added is the idea of shared secrets being a proof of social acceptance--he has to let Harry know when he's in on things, especially if Lucius has told him things. With the dragon caper he seems to seriously be trying to get himself included by reminding everyone that he's in on the secret and hasn't told.

The question sometimes is whether it's that the contact leads to importance or the importance leads to contact. It seems like it's the latter, but in the end that might just not be true. He'd rather be less important than be alone, imo. In HBP Draco's relationships become important not in terms of the worth of the people (adult vs. child, DE vs. non-DE, powerful vs. non-power) but in terms of their care for him. The people who care about him are trying to help him in the same ways--to literally help him to do what he has to do to save himself, and to maybe get him out of the mess he's in. Bellatrix, the DE (who doesn't really care about him) is the only person who wants him to do it and would be fine if him dying if he didn't. And despite what people have always said we don't really have scenes in canon where Draco tosses his own allies to the wolves to advance himself.

I'm also struck by the way Zach, in his quidditch commentary, focuses on those Weasley jerks and Harry's misguided alliance with them rather than on attacking Harry directly.

Yes, Zach's commentary is presented in the text as almost coming out of nowhere and being yet more unfair prejudice-so making Harry look better. How dare he suggest Harry would put people on the team he likes? Yet we see other signs that people seem to get that impression. When Dean gets taken off the team again he and Seamus are seen to be muttering darkly...about what? It seems like they would think of Harry as cliqueish as well.

I wonder if "my side vs. your side" is really so central to how Draco thinks, or just the tool he finds most convenient for prying at Harry, specifically, when he wants to get Harry's attention.

When I thought about the train diss I first thought of Draco sort pathetically defending his himself by acting as if Harry had rejected his "side" when he'd just rejected Draco personally--as if Draco had a side at all. Though later I have come to see that Draco might actually have good reason to see it that way since from his pov Harry and Ron perhaps seem to be laying in wait. I mean, Ron laughs at his name and when he insults him back Harry's own diss might seem like Harry saying, "We're together and against you." It's not really about Voldemort so much as the Weasleys, but I could see why Draco might slip right into Lucius' own defense about the wrong people etc.

Usually, though, I think I agree with you that Draco invokes his "side" to bug Harry when he's not really working for or with anyone at all. It's just another weapon he can use that gets to Harry, but I don't think it's his favorite. He'd rather see Harry look foolish than killed by Voldemort, I think.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Well, now you've got to give me your impressions

Ha! I think I like setting myself up as a target for your refining fire (how's that for a mixed metaphor?) easily as much as those times I've managed to convert you, so let's see who changes their mind in five minutes. :) But give me a day or so to put it together because I had about five or six false starts and couldn't quite clean it up for Maya's thread. Basically it's that Draco expresses himself with a kind of brittleness and excessive irritability that I think flashes warning lights when most people, including the Slytherins, hear someone talk that way; that he invokes adult alliances in peer conversations in ways that would get his head flushed in the toilet in many self-respecting Boarding School stories; and that his friends don't quite take him seriously, that they are prudently silent about some of his extravagances and while they often find it entertaining to watch him, they seem unsurprised, and sometimes unsympathetic, when his adventures end badly. But I have to figure out whether I have enough cases to make this stick, or whether I'm overgeneralizing from a few incidents.

Zach's commentary is presented in the text as almost coming out of nowhere and being yet more unfair prejudice-so making Harry look better.

Honestly I think it's even trickier than that, though. There's that interesting moment when Zach says that "Harper of Slytherin has certainly seen something [the Snitch] that Potter hasn't," and Harry wastes valuable time thinking what an asshole Zach is before realizing he's absolutely correct -- and belatedly soaring off after Harper and the snitch. Yes, Zach (understandably) has a little bit of an edge here, and in the way he mocks Harry's choices for the team, but it reinforces the association between Zach and things Harry "hasn't" or doesn't see (we've talked about the negligent way he went along with Ginny's alienation of Zach, after Harry had spent half of Fifth Year winning him over). It also allows the possibility that Zach is admonishing, correcting him in an ultimately supportive way, rather than simply attacking him personally. It's interesting that Harry only wins this match because he (unfairly?) distracts Harper at the last minute, so maybe Zach is quite right about the team. So again I don't see simple hostility or spitefulness toward Harry -- there's a sense of disappointment with him, maybe a sense that things could and should have been different.

Usually, though, I think I agree with you that Draco invokes his "side" to bug Harry when he's not really working for or with anyone at all . . . He'd rather see Harry look foolish than killed by Voldemort, I think.

What he'd like most of all, I think, is for Harry to "realize" that he (Harry) has been wrong and Draco right all along. And that Harry is headed for a very sad fate indeed because he has disdained Draco's help and guidance. That's a constant theme in his taunts, I think. Really I'm amazed at the range of people who shake their heads at Harry's wrongheadedness rather than simply disliking/hating him. :)

It's not really about Voldemort so much as the Weasleys

You know, the more I think about the Weasleys, the creepier I think they are. All that hero-worship from Ginny and envy from Ron and sycophancy from the Twins and self-regarding pity from Molly. It's no coincidence that one element of Percy's rebellion against his family is a hostility to Harry. Maybe Draco's on to something . . .

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I have enough cases to make this stick, or whether I'm overgeneralizing from a few incidents.

Looking forward to it! But luckily I don't think it contradicts my idea. Basically, the point of the thing is about the racism of the DEs and the way that it sort of offers a substitute connection to people that is really the opposite (Voldemort=personal immortality/no love, Harry=mortality/love). And here's Draco who's both the bully and the kid who's attracted to it. And I think it's interesting that JKR's chosen to make him this very social creature who's so connected to fitting in, but is also connected to problems with exactly that (as opposed to the Angry Young Man that was Snape or another Dudley). I wanted to look especially at PS and CoS, which I think set him up for the part he's really meant to play in HBP.

In PS he plays the role of school antagonist more than any other book--but instead of setting him up as a Dudley bully Rowling specifically has him try and fail to be Harry's friend. Then he swings back and forth between trying to get rid of Harry, the face of his failure, and sticking himself in Harry's face. There's even two kind of primal images of him in that book--the hand stuck out and refused, and the face pressed up to the window of the cabin where the other kids are gathered (Ginny ironically describes something similar later). Then in CoS Draco doesn't have as much of a plot but we see a pattern of problems in the relationships he does have: Lucius, the Quidditch team, Crabbe and Goyle.

The kind of relationship you describe with his friends is more what his real advantage is in HBP. These are people who don't see him as heroic, have seen him at his most humiliated, but perhaps see something in him anyway. But he seems almost enamored by fantasy relationships that are perfect and he's just adored and feels great all the time. Maybe, if we go back to Lucius, because Lucius seems to lay that out as the problem: He's not good enough, so he's not loved enough.

Harper of Slytherin has certainly seen something [the Snitch] that Potter hasn't."

Man, that line always gets me, because Zach wins the game for Harry there. He was distracted and might not have even looked for the Snitch if he hadn't heard what he took as an insult. And what does Zach get for that but knocked unconscious? Now that I think of it it really does make for a nice parallel. Zach worked for Harry the year before as well, but the next year, when he wasn't needed any more, the inner circle couldn't get rid of him fast enough. I hope they need him in the future (Heir of Hufflepuff?)

You know, the more I think about the Weasleys, the creepier I think they are.

Seriously--which is why I find the theories where they represent some family Harry longs for awful. Even weirder is where people assume that the great thing about the Weasleys is how they never care about Harry as TBWL when we've got, as you say, Ginny the worshipper, Ron who resents, Molly's grand claims, etc. When Harry's Sorted into Gryffindor the Twins break out chanting, "We got Potter! We got Potter!" None of them seem to show quite that much pride in having Hermione adopted.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

luckily I don't think it contradicts my idea.

Even better! And your bigger thesis about false/substitute connections sounds fascinating. I like your point about Draco's fantasy relationships. I saw it as a kind of neediness and grandiosity that's only stoked, never satisfied, by ordinary connections. So we may be on similar tracks in interesting ways. I wish I had more time to write it today but I'm definitely looking forward to doing that and to hearing more about your presentation.

Man, that line always gets me

Isn't it great? It works in so many ways -- as a sexual taunt (which might put an interesting spin on Ginny's reaction), as a parody of Harry's claims to secret or privileged knowledge about Voldemort, and as all the more overt things too. I like Zach as a character; Hermione should have taken him to Slughorn's party! And now I'm nostalgic for the days of OOTP meta and H/Z! :)

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hope I'm not burying you with replies but you keep saying interesting things.

I saw it as a kind of neediness and grandiosity that's only stoked, never satisfied, by ordinary connections.

I see what you mean...and yet it's fascinating trying to figure out just what it is, given the way his story has gone. Like, the thing with Draco that I think a lot of us who like the character see is that he's never quite enough of what he wants to be. He wants to be evil, and it's not that he's a nice guy, but he's just not really good at evil. Lucius is a screw up, but he's got no trouble with the evil part.

With socializing it's like you say--Draco obviously wants social success and attention and validation. Yet he does things like brag about his father--wtf? It's suicide. Yet he's not clueless socially either. He's not David Brent who wants to be liked but has no self-perception about his real talents or sense of humor. He does have some success. Even Harry notices some actual skills--he does fly well, his impressions can be accurate. Some of his insults to Harry are socially aware--like when he accuses him of liking the Weasleys because they have that family vibe and he's sniffing around like a puppy looking for a mother. That's kind of advanced stuff.

So why the other failures? Why does it so often seem like Maya's Draco is so accurate with friends that are protective of him or sometimes just cut him loose to take his lumps on his own because they're not signing up for that? Or at least they seem to have normal relationships with him--some people describe Blaise as seeming to not like Draco in HBP but to me they seemed like perfectly natural friends. Blaise wasn't sucking up to him, but his put downs about how no, he didn't believe Draco became Voldemort's bff over the summer didn't seem cruel. They seemed like something you'd say to a kid like this--obviously it's okay to call Draco on his shit.

So because of that it seems like he actually has made relationships that are real. I was reading a book recently where the main character didn't like this one boy because he was a know-it-all etc., but later did come to like him, noting that even though he was still a pain he also sometimes made sacrifices for the other kids. And he also noticed that the kid had all these issues with his mother that he was probably covering up. So you wonder if maybe there is something in Draco that keeps him from being the Luna of Slytherin, so that all the times when people are laughing at his jokes in CoMC they're not just setting him up.

Hermione should have taken him to Slughorn's party! And now I'm nostalgic for the days of OOTP meta and H/Z!

Zach wouldn't have been attacking her under the mistletoe! Perhaps she asked him and he turned her down, having figured out that she was just using him to make a Weasley jealous.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

Sorry I left this hanging -- this week was a bear workwise, and I probably should have done more to prepare last weekend, but it was much too much fun to talk about HP! Anyway . . .

Why does it so often seem like Maya's Draco is so accurate with friends that are protective of him or sometimes just cut him loose to take his lumps on his own because they're not signing up for that? Or at least they seem to have normal relationships with him

So I'm thinking more about this, and skimming the books for my alleged future post about Draco's brittle relationships, and I came upon the scene in PS/SS when Neville gets his Remembrall from his Gran. This isn't the flying scene, it's the earlier one in the Great Hall when the Remembrall actually arrives by owl. Draco is passing by the Gryffindor table, notices, and snatches the Remembrall out of Neville's hand to look at it. And everyone sort of gets agitated until McGonagall comes along and breaks things up, at which point Draco tosses the ball back and says he was "just looking" at it.

The thing that strikes me here is that Draco's behavior seems both aggressive but also contained, and he comes off as a little less than natural, a little bit contrived. I may be overreading this very short scene, but it sort of feels like he's maybe trying out a kind of dominance behavior that he's heard about but isn't quite smooth at yet. You can imagine Lucius taking him aside and telling him: "Here are some tricks for setting yourself up as over-dog. When you have the opportunity, crowd people's space a little bit. Finger their lapels. Rifle through their things -- not in a threatening way, but like you belong there. If they let you do it, you've got 'em." I mean, poor Draco isn't trying to start an incident here -- he's in the middle of the Great Hall, with scads of teachers all around, it wouldn't make any sense. When he horns in on the scene and helps himself to a close look at Neville's toy, he may actually think he's being suave. And, um, masterful. :P

I thought about whether this was typical of Draco's behavior in a general way, but I think it's more exceptional. Often enough Draco really is pretty suave, in his own way -- he's spontaneous, funny, verbally fluent, clever and effective about scoring his points. Every now and then, though, you seem to catch a glimpse of a kid who is divided from himself, who's trying to be something he isn't comfortable with and doing it badly. The normally competent Draco comes off as someone who might have the Deatheater equivalent of Dale Carnegie stuffed under his mattress, and who studiously takes notes at night when no one can see him.

So his behavior toward Neville in the Great Hall scene maybe doesn't seem like undifferentiated boorishness and overreaching, but more specifically like the behavior of someone who thinks there are particular gimmicks, particular techniques, for "winning friends" (or at least influencing people) that he needs to learn and practice. The offered handshake in PS/SS similarly seems a bit precious for an eleven-year-old -- and doomed by its awkwardness because what self-respecting kid wouldn't turn it down? The almost avuncular tone Draco takes when cautioning the Trio in the QWC forest scene is a bit pompous, and maybe it's hard for a reader to figure this scene out because Draco hasn't figured it out, he's just striking a pose, playing with a role. He's unusually awkward at this stuff because he's not naturally dominant, he's more a natural back-bencher, a clown, a Black rather than a Malfoy. He's more comfortable -- and more effective -- snarking and being funny and coming up with clever pranks to amuse his friends. But something (his father?) drives him to be more, makes him feel discontented with only being part of the crowd.

[continued . . . ]

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

[. . . continued]

Those moments where Draco tries to be more assertive would come off as hokey except that the Harry-filter (and, well, maybe the Deatheater part, too) makes it seem kind of sinister. And then of course there's a related kind of breakdown he experiences when things really are implicitly sinister. If you compare the ways he insults Ron and Hermione, he's much more imaginative and verbally playful when he's getting to Ron, and much cruder and grosser with Hermione: "Is your mother really that porky or is it just the photograph?" vs. "If you're wondering what that smell is . . . " So is the Mudblood issue a focus of some anxiety for him? As Elkins points out, in "Draco the Nutter," when anything having to do with Voldemort and Pureblood rule comes up Draco actually starts getting flushed and shrill, a little bit shaky, and that signals the very opposite of the confidence he's trying to convey.

So just like in the discussion about Snape where we both flagged some abrupt departures from Draco's normal behavior as signs of a daddy-button being pressed, I wonder if we can also see some of his more socially gross moments as flagging anxiety-buttons that would normally be hidden. There may be a pattern to this, to those moments where he makes an ass of himself in one of these ways, where he comes off as a too-obvious poseur, so that they represent an authorial marker indicating areas where Draco a bit divided within himself. Issues of status, dominance, feelings of superiority or inferiority, and their reflections in WW high politics seem to be the areas of obsessive interest, areas where he's least comfortable in his own skin.

I don't know. Again, I could be massively overreading. And hypothesis-testing is ever so much more time-consuming than hypothesis-generating. :) But another application of this idea, he says, quickly changing the subject, is to the question of Draco's friendships. I said in the other thread that some of his behavior ought to get his head flushed in the toilet; you said somewhat more humanely that his friends may just be on to his B.S. and love him anyway. If his more obnoxious and awkward behavior is bounded in this way, linked to specific situations and hot buttons, then you're probably on to something -- his friends can just see it as "oh well, Draco's off on one of his hobbyhorses again" and roll their eyes and find plenty of other things to like about him.

Hmmmm. I'm not sure that's as strong a case as I hoped it would be. But what the hell, it's a warmup. :) Nice to be back in the thread with you, and I hope you haven't got thoroughly sick of it in the interim. :)

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Sorry I left this hanging -- this week was a bear workwise
Today was like an early Xmas--so many BD comments! Weeee!

I love that you brought up that Rememberall scene because it always stands out in my mind and I'm never sure why. Part of it is while Harry responds to it immediately as bullying, and I can see why, it never quite feels that way to me. What you're describing here is along the same lines--you're saying that Draco is trying out a type of behavior that's not supposed to be exactly negative. When I read it that's kind of what it sounded like too. He's not starting a fight--as you say, he's in front of teachers and besides, he's not angry. We've seen him when he's actually trying to make Harry or someone angry.

When I read it it almost felt like just trying to aggressively insert himself into a conversation. Almost like in GoF when he appears in the Gryffindor's train car--not to fight but to talk about the Tournament. He arrives with an insult, but a different boy could pull off that kind of casual dominance (and he's smoother in GoF). But it felt like that's what he was trying to do.

Draco can't pull it off and because Harry won't allow him to try. He immediately goes straight to actual dominance. Had Harry reacted a little more cautiously and seen where he was going it might not have been as bad as he imagined. When Draco actually takes the Rememberall later Harry also immediately makes it into a fight for dominance--when Harry says, "Give it here!" when Draco's picked up the forgotten Rememberall for his own type of show, Draco can't give it to him or he'd be showing total submission. His actions in that altercation are kind of trying to just get out of it with as little trouble as possible.

Often enough Draco really is pretty suave, in his own way -- he's spontaneous, funny, verbally fluent, clever and effective about scoring his points

Yes--getting into my PR thing (which I will link to when it's posted because I would love to get your thoughts if I can go over what I'm thinking) there's some comparison of him and Dudley and looking at just how much Draco is connected to a certain kind of social success/fighting. Through Harry's eyes he never looks too good, but even then we sometimes get some these odd things like how Malfoy was "holding court" at the Slytherin table. So maybe, as you say, Draco actually is a fun guy to be friends with in other ways that Harry would never see. I have always noticed that certainly he works for his friends. Where Harry kind of draws people no matter what he does for them (in OotP friendship with Harry is particularly one-sided-Ron's all on his own with his Quidditch woes). Draco's usually working hard to entertain with his friends--he tells stories, tells jokes, does impressions.

That's not what he's ever doing with Harry--though there's still a couple of places with Ron where his insults, as you say, are more sophisticated. With Hermione he's crude, with Harry he's sometimes stupid but sometimes more clever. I genuinely liked, for instance, his comeback to Ron's bragging about Harry's Nimbus in PS by putting down Malfoy's Comet (something like: Weasley, do you even have a broom? I suppose you and your brothers have to save up twig by twig?). It's withering, but it's also funny and not too much given Ron's own attempt to put him down.

If his friends more often see him being funny they could have more of a sense of his weak spots--particularly since they're not always around when Draco's at his worst in front of Harry. You don't want to make it all a Daddy issue, but damn it makes sense given the Lucius we've seen. Ironically, Draco might do okay just trying to be Lucius' public face, schmoozing and donating money. But he's totally missing some of the other core Lucius qualities. And Lucius can't teach him because he kind of sucks that way.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[black-dog.livejournal.com]

I really did sort of spam you, didn't I? *facepalms* I had one of those weeks that was a cross between Hurry-Up-And-Wait and Huge-Effort-For-Nothing (the verdict is still out) and I just sort of threw myself into LJ with a vengeance when it ended. Better than turning to drink! But maybe with an unusually low signal-to-noise ratio in my comments. :)

Anyway, I think we definitely see the Remembrall scene in the same way. And it was interesting that your latest DTCL post sort of put the broom incident in the same perspective -- Draco's just being grabby because that's how he shows his interest, it's not like he's going to snap the broom in the middle of the Entrance Hall. Lucius may have forgot to tell him what to do when this thing doesn't work. But all the sinister spin, here and in the flying lesson, is Harry's projection, and he immediately puts Draco in an impossible position.

Of course it gets worse, and eventually becomes genuinely nasty, as the series goes on. It's kind of fascinating to watch Harry escalate minor awkwardnesses into permanent bad feelings, with Draco, with Zach, maybe even in a sense with Snape. But you get the feeling that most of Harry's adversaries get to a point where they're thinking "WTF? You're taking this way too seriously!"

You don't want to make it all a Daddy issue, but damn it makes sense given the Lucius we've seen . . . he's totally missing some of the other core Lucius qualities. And Lucius can't teach him because he kind of sucks that way.

Yeah, and this might make even the parenting issue less sinister and more ordinarily tragic. Lucius isn't necessarily a bad parent because he's a bad person. He's a bad parent because he doesn't make allowance for the fact that Draco's personality is very different from his own. He thinks he can mold him, instead of adapting his approach to who Draco is. It's the old tabula rasa fallacy, just ordinary interpersonal stupidity.

Re: (Corrected version of comment)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Don't apologize! Don't! I love it! But I hope work gets better soon. I feel guilty reaping the benefits of your bad week.

It's kind of fascinating to watch Harry escalate minor awkwardnesses into permanent bad feelings, with Draco, with Zach, maybe even in a sense with Snape.

And yet so far one of the problems is, of course, that few people step out of Harry's pov enough to recognize that he's escalating. In the last "Blame Game" I was in some ways most shocked by the number of people who thought Zach was at fault in the scene where Ginny ran into him on her broom because "he's an asshat." Not only is Zach just not that bad, but it's not like fanon ever seemed to see him as such itself. But in HBP we've got Harry and Ginny talking about him as an idiot and a jerk, he makes them angry, and so suddenly yeah, he was really a jerk.

With Draco, too, sometimes the people most open to his story in HBP seem people who either like the character and so looked at him closely or through rose-colored glasses, and people who never cared much about him and were neutral. It's harder to let go, imo, of the view that took Harry's hatred and created a character to match.

He's a bad parent because he doesn't make allowance for the fact that Draco's personality is very different from his own.

Yup. He seems genuinely clueless that a child is not automatically something you've got under control, you know? He tells Draco to play nice with Harry but doesn't seem to really be putting an effort into making him do that. He thinks he can spin tales of LV and the Heir and then keep Draco out of it just by saying to keep his head down.